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Jere Krischel at 05:05, 12 December 2005

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1016 HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.
Senator GRAY. Very well: state anything else that occurred in the
sequence of events of that day in your observation?
Mr. STALKER. The Hawaiian flag was floating from the mast over
on the palace.
The CHAIRMAN. On the palace?
Mr. STALKER. Yes; on the Queen's palace. And I observed couriers
or orderlies going back and forth. I did not know the significance of
i't, but observed individuals go from one building to the other; they
passed the guards at both places, came in and went out, and this sort
of thing was kept up certainly for a half hour or longer without any
visible change taking place anywhere.
The CHAIRMAN. By the palace do you mean lolani Palacet
Mr. STALKER. Yes; that is the palace as distinguished from the Government
building, where state business is transacted. After a little
the flag on the palace came down, and there was a murmur through
the crowd that the Queen had probably surrendered; that the flag
was down. But a moment later it was pulled up again. It seems it
was being adjusted. Then a cheer went through the crowd when the
nag was pulled up; but a little later a native Hawaiian came out and
lowered the flag, and pretty soon the word went through the crowd on
the streets that the Queen had surrendered. A little later it was in
print, what doubtless has been presented in evidence here a good
many times, that the Queen had surrendered "To the superior military
forces of the United States."
The CHAIRMAN. I would like you to give the day and the time of
day exactly when that occurred.
Mr. STALKER. When the flag came down?
Senator GRAY. Mr. Stalker has already said it was Tuesday, the 17th
of January.
Mr. STALKER. Yes; Tuesday, the 17th. And this was late in the
afternoon. I could not say what time of day it was. I believe it was
between 3 and 4, possibly as late as 4 o'clock, though 1 would not be
positive as to the time of day.
Senator GRAY. Was it not as late as 5?
Mr. STALKER. That the flag came down?
Senator GRAY. Yes.
Mr. STALKER. It might have been. Let me see. About 2 the ball
really opened over there, and it might possibly have been as late as 5.
I should say it was as late as 5 when the flag came down. There was
a good deal of delay, parleying back and forth, until pretty well along
in the afternoon.
Senator GRAY. You were on the streets all this time, from the time
you went up after dinner to the public building to the time of the
events which you have described as coming under your observation;
did you continue in the streets of Honolulu?
Mr. STALKER. I was back and forth after getting some information.
When I first went over I remained a time, half an hour, possibly longer
than that, and then went back to the hotel to tell some of my friends
there, who were in a pretty uneasy state of mind, what had occurred.
I then came out on the street, and I was on the street during the
afternoon and evening.
Senator GRAY. Bid you hear anything said during that afternoon
and evening in regard to the presence of the United States troops?
Mr. STALKER. Yes; I heard frequent remarks about their presence.
Senator GRAY. And the significance of their presence?
Mr. STALKER. Yes; I believe I did.
HAWAIIAN ISLANDS. 1017
Senator GRAY. What was it, as you understand it?
Mr. STALKER. This query came up, probably in some conversation
with people sittiug about in the hotel: " I f the troops were there to
protect property, why did they not protect that building, its offices and
treasury, against parties who came there with arms in their hands, and
nobody presumably knowing what they were going to do and what they
were there for?"
The CHAIRMAN. TO what offices do you refer?
Mr. STALKER. The permanent offices of the Hawaiian Government.
The CHAIRMAN. The Government building?
Mr. STALKER. Yes; the Government building generally.
Senator GRAY. When you got back to the hotel after the proclamation
of the new Government and the hauling down of the flag was
everything quiet that evening?
Mr. STALKER. Yes.
Senator GRAY. DOyouknowwhatgavethatsenseof repose? I ask the
question in this form: Was it confidence in this newly established Government
and its ability to preserve order, or was it the presence of the
United States troops?
Mr. STALKER. That I would not be able to answer. As I said
before, I saw no street demonstration or acts of violence; nor did I
hear threats during this time, either before or after.
The CHAIRMAN. YOU have been speaking about the impressions you
derived from conversations you heard at the time you have indicated.
Can you trace those conversations to any particular individuals—
those remarks?
Mr. STALKER. I do not believe I can. A number of us was at the
hotel, and a good many 1 did not know the names of. We engaged in
miscellaneous conversation, and remarks were frequently made by
persons whom I did not know.
The CHAIRMAN. Were these men who have any connection with the
political movement there either for the Queen or against her?
Mr. STALKER. NO, I think not; they were people who, like myself,
were simply standing by.
The CHAIRMAN. Disinterested observers, or rather observers of matters
with which they were not connected?
Mr. STALKER. Fes.
The CHAIRMAN. I suppose it was very much as it would be with any
other discussion of a current event by gentlemen looking on and observing
without having any participation at all?
Mr. STALKER. Yes.
Senator GRAY. YOU were not partisans of either party?
Mr. STALKER. NO.
Senator GRAY. On the next day what seemed to be the condition of
things ?
The CHAIRMAN. That would be Wednesday?
Senator GRAY. Wednesday; yes.
Mr. STALKER. Matters were quiet. I was in and out of the hotel
and on the streets around in front of the public buildings. I think on
Wednesday I was in Mr. Severance's office. He was our consul at that
time, and he gave me a pass or permit which entitled me to go to the
building. I had been there a good many times; had a good many
acquaiutances in the office; and I went in and out and talked to them.
I think it was next day that Mr. Severance gave me a pass.
Senator GRAY. Hid you hear any discussion of the events of the day
before?

@@ Line 45: / Line 45: @@
 Senator GRAY. What was it, as you understand it?
-Mr. STALKER. This query came up, probably in some conversation with people sitting about in the hotel: " If the troops were there to protect property, why did they not protect that building, its offices and treasury, against parties who came there with arms in their hands, and nobody presumably knowing what they were going to do and what they were there for?"
+Mr. STALKER. This query came up, probably in some conversation with people sitting about in the hotel: "If the troops were there to protect property, why did they not protect that building, its offices and treasury, against parties who came there with arms in their hands, and nobody presumably knowing what they were going to do and what they were there for?"
 The CHAIRMAN. To what offices do you refer?
@@ Line 91: / Line 91: @@
 Mr. STALKER. Matters were quiet. I was in and out of the hotel and on the streets around in front of the public buildings. I think on Wednesday I was in Mr. Severance's office. He was our consul at that time, and he gave me a pass or permit which entitled me to go to the building. I had been there a good many times; had a good many acquaintances in the office; and I went in and out and talked to them. I think it was next day that Mr. Severance gave me a pass.
-Senator GRAY. Hid you hear any discussion of the events of the day before?
+Senator GRAY. Did you hear any discussion of the events of the day before?

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.
+{{p|1016}}
 Senator GRAY. Very well: state anything else that occurred in the
-sequence of events of that day in your observation?
+Senator GRAY. Very well: state anything else that occurred in the sequence of events of that day in your observation?
 Mr. STALKER. The Hawaiian flag was floating from the mast over
-on the palace.
+Mr. STALKER. The Hawaiian flag was floating from the mast over on the palace.
 The CHAIRMAN. On the palace?
-Mr. STALKER. Yes; on the Queen's palace. And I observed couriers
+The CHAIRMAN. On the palace?
 or orderlies going back and forth. I did not know the significance of
-i't, but observed individuals go from one building to the other; they
+Mr. STALKER. Yes; on the Queen's palace. And I observed couriers or orderlies going back and forth. I did not know the significance of it, but observed individuals go from one building to the other; they passed the guards at both places, came in and went out, and this sort of thing was kept up certainly for a half hour or longer without any visible change taking place anywhere.
 passed the guards at both places, came in and went out, and this sort
-of thing was kept up certainly for a half hour or longer without any
+The CHAIRMAN. By the palace do you mean Iolani Palace?
 visible change taking place anywhere.
-The CHAIRMAN. By the palace do you mean lolani Palacet
+Mr. STALKER. Yes; that is the palace as distinguished from the Government building, where state business is transacted. After a little the flag on the palace came down, and there was a murmur through the crowd that the Queen had probably surrendered; that the flag was down. But a moment later it was pulled up again. It seems it was being adjusted. Then a cheer went through the crowd when the flag was pulled up; but a little later a native Hawaiian came out and lowered the flag, and pretty soon the word went through the crowd on the streets that the Queen had surrendered. A little later it was in print, what doubtless has been presented in evidence here a good many times, that the Queen had surrendered "To the superior military forces of the United States."
 Mr. STALKER. Yes; that is the palace as distinguished from the Government
-building, where state business is transacted. After a little
+The CHAIRMAN. I would like you to give the day and the time of day exactly when that occurred.
 the flag on the palace came down, and there was a murmur through
-the crowd that the Queen had probably surrendered; that the flag
+Mr. STALKER. When the flag came down?
 was down. But a moment later it was pulled up again. It seems it
-was being adjusted. Then a cheer went through the crowd when the
+Senator GRAY. Mr. Stalker has already said it was Tuesday, the 17th of January.
-nag was pulled up; but a little later a native Hawaiian came out and
-lowered the flag, and pretty soon the word went through the crowd on
+Mr. STALKER. Yes; Tuesday, the 17th. And this was late in the afternoon. I could not say what time of day it was. I believe it was between 3 and 4, possibly as late as 4 o'clock, though I would not be positive as to the time of day.
 the streets that the Queen had surrendered. A little later it was in
-print, what doubtless has been presented in evidence here a good
+Senator GRAY. Was it not as late as 5?
 many times, that the Queen had surrendered "To the superior military
-forces of the United States."
+Mr. STALKER. That the flag came down?
 The CHAIRMAN. I would like you to give the day and the time of
-day exactly when that occurred.
+Senator GRAY. Yes.
 Mr. STALKER. When the flag came down?
-Senator GRAY. Mr. Stalker has already said it was Tuesday, the 17th
+Mr. STALKER. It might have been. Let me see. About 2 the ball really opened over there, and it might possibly have been as late as 5. I should say it was as late as 5 when the flag came down. There was a good deal of delay, parleying back and forth, until pretty well along in the afternoon.
 of January.
-Mr. STALKER. Yes; Tuesday, the 17th. And this was late in the
+Senator GRAY. You were on the streets all this time, from the time you went up after dinner to the public building to the time of the events which you have described as coming under your observation; did you continue in the streets of Honolulu?
 afternoon. I could not say what time of day it was. I believe it was
-between 3 and 4, possibly as late as 4 o'clock, though 1 would not be
+Mr. STALKER. I was back and forth after getting some information. When I first went over I remained a time, half an hour, possibly longer than that, and then went back to the hotel to tell some of my friends there, who were in a pretty uneasy state of mind, what had occurred. I then came out on the street, and I was on the street during the afternoon and evening.
 positive as to the time of day.
-Senator GRAY. Was it not as late as 5?
+Senator GRAY. Did you hear anything said during that afternoon and evening in regard to the presence of the United States troops?
 Mr. STALKER. That the flag came down?
-Senator GRAY. Yes.
+Mr. STALKER. Yes; I heard frequent remarks about their presence.
 Mr. STALKER. It might have been. Let me see. About 2 the ball
-really opened over there, and it might possibly have been as late as 5.
+Senator GRAY. And the significance of their presence?
 I should say it was as late as 5 when the flag came down. There was
-a good deal of delay, parleying back and forth, until pretty well along
+Mr. STALKER. Yes; I believe I did.
 in the afternoon.
-Senator GRAY. You were on the streets all this time, from the time
+{{p|1017}}
 you went up after dinner to the public building to the time of the
-events which you have described as coming under your observation;
+Senator GRAY. What was it, as you understand it?
 did you continue in the streets of Honolulu?
-Mr. STALKER. I was back and forth after getting some information.
+Mr. STALKER. This query came up, probably in some conversation with people sitting about in the hotel: " If the troops were there to protect property, why did they not protect that building, its offices and treasury, against parties who came there with arms in their hands, and nobody presumably knowing what they were going to do and what they were there for?"
 When I first went over I remained a time, half an hour, possibly longer
-than that, and then went back to the hotel to tell some of my friends
+The CHAIRMAN. To what offices do you refer?
 there, who were in a pretty uneasy state of mind, what had occurred.
-I then came out on the street, and I was on the street during the
+Mr. STALKER. The permanent offices of the Hawaiian Government.
 afternoon and evening.
-Senator GRAY. Bid you hear anything said during that afternoon
+The CHAIRMAN. The Government building?
 and evening in regard to the presence of the United States troops?
-Mr. STALKER. Yes; I heard frequent remarks about their presence.
+Mr. STALKER. Yes; the Government building generally.
 Senator GRAY. And the significance of their presence?
-Mr. STALKER. Yes; I believe I did.
+Senator GRAY. When you got back to the hotel after the proclamation of the new Government and the hauling down of the flag was everything quiet that evening?
-HAWAIIAN ISLANDS. 1017
-Senator GRAY. What was it, as you understand it?
+Mr. STALKER. Yes.
 Mr. STALKER. This query came up, probably in some conversation
-with people sittiug about in the hotel: " I f the troops were there to
+Senator GRAY. Do you know what gave that sense of repose? I ask the question in this form: Was it confidence in this newly established Government and its ability to preserve order, or was it the presence of the United States troops?
 protect property, why did they not protect that building, its offices and
-treasury, against parties who came there with arms in their hands, and
+Mr. STALKER. That I would not be able to answer. As I said before, I saw no street demonstration or acts of violence; nor did I hear threats during this time, either before or after.
 nobody presumably knowing what they were going to do and what they
-were there for?"
+The CHAIRMAN. You have been speaking about the impressions you derived from conversations you heard at the time you have indicated. Can you trace those conversations to any particular individuals— those remarks?
-The CHAIRMAN. TO what offices do you refer?
-Mr. STALKER. The permanent offices of the Hawaiian Government.
+Mr. STALKER. I do not believe I can. A number of us was at the hotel, and a good many I did not know the names of. We engaged in miscellaneous conversation, and remarks were frequently made by persons whom I did not know.
 The CHAIRMAN. The Government building?
-Mr. STALKER. Yes; the Government building generally.
+The CHAIRMAN. Were these men who have any connection with the political movement there either for the Queen or against her?
 Senator GRAY. When you got back to the hotel after the proclamation
-of the new Government and the hauling down of the flag was
+Mr. STALKER. No, I think not; they were people who, like myself, were simply standing by.
 everything quiet that evening?
-Mr. STALKER. Yes.
+The CHAIRMAN. Disinterested observers, or rather observers of matters with which they were not connected?
-Senator GRAY. DOyouknowwhatgavethatsenseof repose? I ask the
-question in this form: Was it confidence in this newly established Government
+Mr. STALKER. Yes.
 and its ability to preserve order, or was it the presence of the
-United States troops?
+The CHAIRMAN. I suppose it was very much as it would be with any other discussion of a current event by gentlemen looking on and observing without having any participation at all?
 Mr. STALKER. That I would not be able to answer. As I said
-before, I saw no street demonstration or acts of violence; nor did I
+Mr. STALKER. Yes.
 hear threats during this time, either before or after.
-The CHAIRMAN. YOU have been speaking about the impressions you
+Senator GRAY. You were not partisans of either party?
 derived from conversations you heard at the time you have indicated.
-Can you trace those conversations to any particular individuals—
+Mr. STALKER. No.
 those remarks?
-Mr. STALKER. I do not believe I can. A number of us was at the
+Senator GRAY. On the next day what seemed to be the condition of things?
-hotel, and a good many 1 did not know the names of. We engaged in
-miscellaneous conversation, and remarks were frequently made by
+The CHAIRMAN. That would be Wednesday?
 persons whom I did not know.
-The CHAIRMAN. Were these men who have any connection with the
+Senator GRAY. Wednesday; yes.
 political movement there either for the Queen or against her?
-Mr. STALKER. NO, I think not; they were people who, like myself,
+Mr. STALKER. Matters were quiet. I was in and out of the hotel and on the streets around in front of the public buildings. I think on Wednesday I was in Mr. Severance's office. He was our consul at that time, and he gave me a pass or permit which entitled me to go to the building. I had been there a good many times; had a good many acquaintances in the office; and I went in and out and talked to them. I think it was next day that Mr. Severance gave me a pass.
 were simply standing by.
-The CHAIRMAN. Disinterested observers, or rather observers of matters
+Senator GRAY. Hid you hear any discussion of the events of the day before?