Jere Krischel at 06:42, 11 January 2006

2006-01-11T06:42:45Z

Jere Krischel at 01:04, 12 December 2005

2005-12-12T01:04:21Z

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708 HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.
order me to fire on the town, I should not obey any such order unless
I was clearly informed of the necessity.
Senator BUTLER. That is an extreme case.
Mr. YOUNG. But I would obey the order of any minister or civil officer
of an ordinary nature to avoid friction where it would not involve
the loss of life or destruction of property.
Senator BUTLER. If you should receive an order from the Secretary
of the Navy to fire on a town1?
Mr. YOUNG. I would fire; I would not hesitate a minute, not the
slightest; but if it were sent through an improper channel I would
have to see it in writing and the signature to it as well as satisfied of
the necessity for so doing.
Senator BUTLER. That is a matter of discretion.
Senator GRAY. It would be the exercise of a good deal of discretion
if the Presideut of the United States, or the Secretary of the Navy,
were to give him an order and he should refuse to obey it.
Mr. YOUNG. Of course, if the President should give me an order to
organize a body guard for his protection or move a ship, etc., I would
undoubtedly obey it; yet should he order me to shoot an inoffensive
citizen, I would disobey, for the reason that disobeying would involve
dismissal only, whereas, if I shot the man, the civil courts would try
me for murder, and being adjudged guilty I might be hanged, unless
the President were in office to pardon me.
Senator GRAY. About this instruction from Mr. Gresham to Mr.
Blount: " To enable you to fulfill this charge." This is the language
of the Secretary of State in his letter of instructions to Mr. Blount.
" To enable you to fulfill this charge your authority in all matte? s
touching the relations of this Governmont to the existing or other
Government of the islands, or protection ot our citizens therein, is paramount,
and in you is vested full discretion and power to determine
when such forces should be landed and withdrawn."
Now, suppose as commander-in-chief of a ship you got an instruction
from the Secretary of the Navy in which you informed that such an
instruction were given by the President to the minister, and that you
were to conform yourself thereto, and the minister should request you
to land the forces—ordered you; whatever you may call it—advised
you, would you consider yourself bound to obey?
Mr. YOUNG. I would do it, for the simple reason that it would not
involve any loss of life or property, and if I disobeyed it I would receive
a greater punishment than if I obeyed it.
Senator FRYE. You would still hold that it was in your discretion?
Senator GRAY. What discretion ?
Mr. YOUNG. Whether it involved any loss of life or destruction of
property which would hold me accountable for my acts.
The CHAIRMAN. Suppose the orders came through the channel spoken
of by Mr. Gray, and you were ordered to fire on Honolulu, would you
doit?
Mr. YOUNG. NO.
Senator GRAY. That is not what I have called for.
The CHAIRMAN. I did.
Senator GRAY. Whether your punishment was greater if you obeyed
or if you disobeyed?
The CHAIRMAN. What we are discussing here is a question of law,
as to how far the President can delegate his authority to a private citizen
to take command of troops on ships in the strict military sense,
and to use them for the purpose of hostility.
HAWAIIAN ISLANDS. 709
Senator GRAY. The question was raised not by me whether it be
proper. I am anxious to find out what the opinion of representative
naval officers may be. Lieut. Young is in that respect an important
witness. I do not mean that this matter is to be settled by a naval officer,
because it is a question of law. I did not introduce it, but I really
want to know whether the lieutenant thinks, as a naval officer, that
his discretion (which is a wide one under certain circumstances) extends
so far as to disobey the instructions of the Secretary of the Navy where
those instructions involve cooperation with a diplomatic officer on shore,
or, taking the very language of these instructions to Commissioner
Blount, whether he thinks he would be authorized, if he were in command
of a ship, to disobey the request, order, or advice given to him
after receiving notice from the Secretary of the Navy that he was to
obey such instructions either to land or to withdraw troops.
Mr. YOUNG. I would obey the order just the same as Admiral Skerrett
did.
Senator FRYE. And when you hauled down the flag, I suppose you
would say, as Admiral Skerrett did, "I do it in obedience to Mr.
Blount's orders?"
Mr. YOUNG. That is what was done, I believe.
Senator GRAY. And if you put the flag up, you would say, " I did it
in obedience to Mr. Stevens' orders?"
Mr. YOUNG. NO.
Senator GRAY. What did you do?
Mr. YOUNG. We would not put it up under his orders.
Senator GRAY. I understood you to say that the protectorate was
established by a proclamation made by Mr. Stevens and approved by
Captain Wiltse?
Mr. YOUNG. Captain Wiltse approved and carried it out. The law
requires a naval officer, immediately after arriving in a foreign port, to
put himself in communication with the diplomatic representative in
that port, and by intercourse, conversation, requests, or otherwise find
out the absolute state of affairs and to act according to his own
responsibility.
Senator GRAY. That is the ordinary rule when you go into a foreign
port?
Mr. YOUNG. Yes.
Senator GRAY. Where the circumstances are not exceptional, but
where the commissioner is under special directions from your Government,
and through the ordinary channels of communication you receive
from the naval authorities, from the President through the proper
naval channels, orders to conform your action to certain requests that
may be made by the minister, do you not think you would be obliged
to obey it?
Mr. YOUNG. I would obey if it were an ordinary affair; but I would
not consider it a legal order.
Senator GRAY. DO you think your duty as a naval officer in command
of a ship in a foreign port in which a United States protectorate
had been established would require you to-day to obey orders conveyed
to you from the Government at Washington as to the continuance or
discontinuance of that protectorate?
Mr. YOUNG. The continuance or discontinuance?
Senator GRAY. Yes.
Mr. YOUNG. Of course, I would have to obey the orders that were
sent from the Department.

Template:708-709 - Revision history

Jere Krischel at 06:42, 11 January 2006

Jere Krischel at 01:04, 12 December 2005