Difference between revisions of "Template:1044-1045"
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{{p|1044}} | {{p|1044}} | ||
− | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} You mean the measure to license the | |
− | The | ||
introduction of opium? | introduction of opium? | ||
− | Mr | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} Yes. It was done largely for revenue for |
the islands. | the islands. | ||
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} Did you gather from the people there |
that they thought that | that they thought that | ||
was a rather dangerous enterprise for the public | was a rather dangerous enterprise for the public | ||
morality and the | morality and the | ||
− | maintenance of the law | + | maintenance of the law? |
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} Yes. The men who were opposed to it were |
opposed to it from | opposed to it from | ||
those considerations. | those considerations. | ||
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} Were they very earnest about it? |
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} They seemed to be. The ladies were more |
earnest than anybody | earnest than anybody | ||
else. | else. | ||
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} I suppose they were fearing the |
demoralization of their | demoralization of their | ||
sons. | sons. | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} I think that was amongst the things. |
They had a large | They had a large | ||
petition. You could see by the names on it that they | petition. You could see by the names on it that they | ||
− | were Americans | + | were Americans-at |
least, not Chinese. | least, not Chinese. | ||
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} Did you see any demonstration amongst |
what we call the white | what we call the white | ||
− | population in Hawaii | + | population in Hawaii-Americans, Germans, English or |
− | what not | + | what not-that seemed to |
lead in the direction of the demoralization of those | lead in the direction of the demoralization of those | ||
people or the imposing | people or the imposing | ||
upon them of unjust or improper restrictions of law? | upon them of unjust or improper restrictions of law? | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} I think I can say that I did see some |
things which I opposed | things which I opposed | ||
− | very much all my life. For instance, there is this | + | very much all my life. For instance, there is this: |
there are a good many | there are a good many | ||
white men who are living there with Kanaka women to | white men who are living there with Kanaka women to | ||
whom they are not | whom they are not | ||
− | married | + | married-a good many of them. But I do not know of any |
leading legislator or | leading legislator or | ||
any leading man there who had his family with him who | any leading man there who had his family with him who | ||
Line 53: | Line 52: | ||
practice. | practice. | ||
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} Can you say that any such |
irregularities of life as those to | irregularities of life as those to | ||
which you have alluded have received partial | which you have alluded have received partial | ||
Line 60: | Line 59: | ||
population? | population? | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} By a good many of the middle and lower |
classes. Do you | classes. Do you | ||
− | consider that former question was | + | consider that former question was answered? I would |
divide that question. | divide that question. | ||
− | Let it be read until I say stop. The question was | + | Let it be read until I say stop. |
− | read as follows: "Did | + | |
+ | The question was | ||
+ | read as follows: | ||
+ | |||
+ | "Did | ||
you see any demonstration amongst what we call the | you see any demonstration amongst what we call the | ||
white population in | white population in | ||
− | Hawaii | + | Hawaii-Americans, Germans, English, and what not-that |
seemed to lead in the | seemed to lead in the | ||
direction of the demoralization of those people?" | direction of the demoralization of those people?" | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} From that last sentence-"demoralization |
of those people." | of those people." | ||
There are a good many men there living with Kanaka | There are a good many men there living with Kanaka | ||
Line 79: | Line 82: | ||
enough to have families by | enough to have families by | ||
them, and still recognize themselves as not | them, and still recognize themselves as not | ||
− | married | + | married-and still recognize that |
the marriage vow was not obligatory upon them. That | the marriage vow was not obligatory upon them. That | ||
was true of a good many | was true of a good many | ||
Line 90: | Line 93: | ||
encouraged by them. | encouraged by them. | ||
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} In the discussions that you heard |
there among the people, do | there among the people, do | ||
you remember whether the question came up as to the | you remember whether the question came up as to the | ||
Line 98: | Line 101: | ||
bill into effect? | bill into effect? | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} I do not think that there was. The main |
thing that they had | thing that they had | ||
there troubles on was another issue. The Queen was | there troubles on was another issue. The Queen was | ||
struggling to get the | struggling to get the | ||
− | ascendency for the purpose of promoting these things | + | ascendency for the purpose of promoting these things-a return to the native |
rule, already explained. | rule, already explained. | ||
{{p|1045}} | {{p|1045}} | ||
− | + | Senator {{sc|Frye.}} That is, the Queen and her people were | |
− | Senator | ||
trying to get rid of | trying to get rid of | ||
the constitution of 1887, which imposed restrictions | the constitution of 1887, which imposed restrictions | ||
Line 113: | Line 115: | ||
cabinet? | cabinet? | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} Yes. |
− | Senator | + | Senator {{sc|Frye.}} Was this opium bill and this lottery |
bill part of the | bill part of the | ||
− | campaign | + | campaign-to get the Kanaka population to do away with |
the constitution of | the constitution of | ||
1887? | 1887? | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} I do not think they had any design of |
that kind. I think those | that kind. I think those | ||
two bills were for revenue. I think it was said by | two bills were for revenue. I think it was said by | ||
Line 128: | Line 130: | ||
account of its debt. | account of its debt. | ||
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} Did you understand that the debt was a |
very large one? | very large one? | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} Yes, it was large for that place. It |
amounted to almost | amounted to almost | ||
− | $4,000,000 | + | $4,000,000-when pay day for the interest came it would |
amount to very nearly | amount to very nearly | ||
$4,000,000. | $4,000,000. | ||
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} I suppose you are not familiar with |
the facts in regard to | the facts in regard to | ||
the burden of taxation in Hawaii, to know upon whom it | the burden of taxation in Hawaii, to know upon whom it | ||
falls? | falls? | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} Fell upon the property. |
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} Who owned the property-I mean, of |
course, the property that | course, the property that | ||
would yield revenue? | would yield revenue? | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} I think there was a large amount |
gathered from the sugar | gathered from the sugar | ||
plantations. | plantations. | ||
− | Senator | + | Senator {{sc|Frye.}} The chairman asked who owned the |
property. Did not the white | property. Did not the white | ||
men own nine-tenths of it? | men own nine-tenths of it? | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} I think so; yes, eight-tenths. |
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} Do you know any Kanakas or half-whites |
who owned any large | who owned any large | ||
sugar estates? | sugar estates? | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} No; but there were men in business there |
who were half-whites, | who were half-whites, | ||
who owned stock in some of those companies. | who owned stock in some of those companies. | ||
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} But, if I gather your idea, the great |
burden of taxation | burden of taxation | ||
rested upon white men who owned the property? | rested upon white men who owned the property? | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} Yes. |
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} Did you see any disposition or detect |
any disposition | any disposition | ||
amongst those people to do, or to attempt to do, | amongst those people to do, or to attempt to do, | ||
Line 182: | Line 184: | ||
morals? | morals? | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} I do not know that I could interpret the |
action of the white | action of the white | ||
people as having anything to do especially in that | people as having anything to do especially in that | ||
direction. | direction. | ||
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} Have you any personal knowledge of the |
facts that tended | facts that tended | ||
toward the recent revolution? | toward the recent revolution? | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} I have some, gathered in the way that we |
have been talking | have been talking | ||
about. | about. | ||
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} You were there an observer. |
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} Yes. |
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} Were you in the Legislature-I mean the |
hall where the | hall where the | ||
− | Legislature sat | + | Legislature sat-on the Saturday that it was prorogued |
by the Queen? | by the Queen? | ||
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} I was not; no. |
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} You were not there at that time? |
− | Mr. | + | Mr. {{sc|Reeder.}} I was not there at 12 o'clock; no. |
− | The | + | The {{sc|Chairman.}} Did you go to the Government building |
that afternoon? | that afternoon? |
Latest revision as of 01:40, 5 February 2006
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The Chairman. You mean the measure to license the introduction of opium?
Mr. Reeder. Yes. It was done largely for revenue for the islands.
The Chairman. Did you gather from the people there that they thought that was a rather dangerous enterprise for the public morality and the maintenance of the law?
Mr. Reeder. Yes. The men who were opposed to it were opposed to it from those considerations.
The Chairman. Were they very earnest about it?
Mr. Reeder. They seemed to be. The ladies were more earnest than anybody else.
The Chairman. I suppose they were fearing the demoralization of their sons.
Mr. Reeder. I think that was amongst the things. They had a large petition. You could see by the names on it that they were Americans-at least, not Chinese.
The Chairman. Did you see any demonstration amongst what we call the white population in Hawaii-Americans, Germans, English or what not-that seemed to lead in the direction of the demoralization of those people or the imposing upon them of unjust or improper restrictions of law?
Mr. Reeder. I think I can say that I did see some things which I opposed very much all my life. For instance, there is this: there are a good many white men who are living there with Kanaka women to whom they are not married-a good many of them. But I do not know of any leading legislator or any leading man there who had his family with him who was addicted to this practice.
The Chairman. Can you say that any such irregularities of life as those to which you have alluded have received partial encouragement or even toleration on the part of what we call the white population?
Mr. Reeder. By a good many of the middle and lower classes. Do you consider that former question was answered? I would divide that question. Let it be read until I say stop.
The question was read as follows:
"Did you see any demonstration amongst what we call the white population in Hawaii-Americans, Germans, English, and what not-that seemed to lead in the direction of the demoralization of those people?"
Mr. Reeder. From that last sentence-"demoralization of those people." There are a good many men there living with Kanaka women to whom they are not married. Some of them were living there long enough to have families by them, and still recognize themselves as not married-and still recognize that the marriage vow was not obligatory upon them. That was true of a good many of the Chinese; they were living with the Kanaka women, and so were some of the Portuguese. I do not think these practices obtain amongst the better elements of the population of Honolulu, or that they were tolerated or encouraged by them.
The Chairman. In the discussions that you heard there among the people, do you remember whether the question came up as to the necessity of getting rid of the cabinet in order to be able to carry this opium bill and this lottery bill into effect?
Mr. Reeder. I do not think that there was. The main thing that they had there troubles on was another issue. The Queen was struggling to get the ascendency for the purpose of promoting these things-a return to the native rule, already explained.
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Senator Frye. That is, the Queen and her people were trying to get rid of the constitution of 1887, which imposed restrictions upon her and her cabinet?
Mr. Reeder. Yes.
Senator Frye. Was this opium bill and this lottery bill part of the campaign-to get the Kanaka population to do away with the constitution of 1887?
Mr. Reeder. I do not think they had any design of that kind. I think those two bills were for revenue. I think it was said by the Queen that she was embarrassed and the Government was embarrassed on account of its debt.
The Chairman. Did you understand that the debt was a very large one?
Mr. Reeder. Yes, it was large for that place. It amounted to almost $4,000,000-when pay day for the interest came it would amount to very nearly $4,000,000.
The Chairman. I suppose you are not familiar with the facts in regard to the burden of taxation in Hawaii, to know upon whom it falls?
Mr. Reeder. Fell upon the property.
The Chairman. Who owned the property-I mean, of course, the property that would yield revenue?
Mr. Reeder. I think there was a large amount gathered from the sugar plantations.
Senator Frye. The chairman asked who owned the property. Did not the white men own nine-tenths of it?
Mr. Reeder. I think so; yes, eight-tenths.
The Chairman. Do you know any Kanakas or half-whites who owned any large sugar estates?
Mr. Reeder. No; but there were men in business there who were half-whites, who owned stock in some of those companies.
The Chairman. But, if I gather your idea, the great burden of taxation rested upon white men who owned the property?
Mr. Reeder. Yes.
The Chairman. Did you see any disposition or detect any disposition amongst those people to do, or to attempt to do, anything else than protect themselves against unjust legislation, legislation that was wicked in its character, and that tended to break down the authority of law and good morals?
Mr. Reeder. I do not know that I could interpret the action of the white people as having anything to do especially in that direction.
The Chairman. Have you any personal knowledge of the facts that tended toward the recent revolution?
Mr. Reeder. I have some, gathered in the way that we have been talking about.
The Chairman. You were there an observer.
Mr. Reeder. Yes.
The Chairman. Were you in the Legislature-I mean the hall where the Legislature sat-on the Saturday that it was prorogued by the Queen?
Mr. Reeder. I was not; no.
The Chairman. You were not there at that time?
Mr. Reeder. I was not there at 12 o'clock; no.
The Chairman. Did you go to the Government building that afternoon?