Difference between revisions of "Template:1068-1069"

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1068
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{{p|1068}}
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HAWAIIAN ISLANDS.
+
called, or other person, have you heard claim, or  
−
called, or other person, have you heard claim, or where have you seen
+
where have you seen in
−
in print, as you claim, that Hawaii ought not to be annexed without a
+
print, as you claim, that Hawaii ought not to be  
−
majority vote of the native population ?
+
annexed without a majority
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. The New York Times, The World, and the different
+
vote of the native population?
−
administration papers that express their views, held that a
+
 
−
vote should be taken on it.
+
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} The New York Times, The World, and the  
−
Senator GKAY. But separated from all oth etrhse?r e should not be a majority vote of the natives
+
different
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. I mean native whites as well as others. There is
+
administration papers that express their views, held  
−
a large proportion of the population natives who art whites.
+
that a vote should be
−
Senator GEAY. Then you mean that those people contend that there
+
taken on it.  
−
should not be annexation without a vote of all the real population of
+
 
−
those islands?
+
Senator {{sc|Gray.}} But there should not be a majority  
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. Yes.
+
vote of the natives
−
Senator FEYE. Of all who are to votet
+
separated from all others?
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. Yes.
+
 
−
Senator GEAY. That is not what I mean. The majority vote of all
+
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} I mean native whites as well as  
−
the inhabitants of those islands who belong there either as natives or
+
others. There is a large
−
as naturalized citizens? That is what you mean?
+
proportion of the population natives who are whites.
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. Yes.
+
 
−
Senator GEAY. Then you say, ''But that is against all American
+
Senator {{sc|Gray.}} Then you mean that those people  
−
precedent in annexation and generally in all practice throughout the
+
contend that there should
−
world?"
+
not be annexation without a vote of all the real  
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. Yes.
+
population of those
−
Senator GEAY. Are you aware that Mr. Seward, when he was Secretary
+
islands?  
−
of State, declared in an official paper that—
+
 
−
"A revolutionary government is not to be recognized until it is
+
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Yes.
−
established by the great body of the population of the State it claims
+
 
−
to govern?"
+
Senator {{sc|Frye.}} Of all who are to vote?
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. NO; I do not know that. What I meant there
+
 
−
was that there had never been a case of annexation in this country
+
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Yes.
−
where the people had voted on it.
+
 
−
Senator FEYE. That is, the annexed population?
+
Senator {{sc|Gray.}} That is not what I mean. The majority  
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. The annexed population. If it had been, the
+
vote of all the
−
annexation would have been repudiated in every case.
+
inhabitants of those islands who belong there either  
−
The CHAIEMAN. In the case of a plebescite in Hawaii, where the
+
as natives or as
−
population is homogeneous, there is not as much reason for having
+
naturalized citizens? That is what you mean?
−
a plebescite of our own people for the admission of those strangers as
+
 
−
there would be of submitting to them in case they desired to come in?
+
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Yes.
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. Yes; in the case of Louisiana and the case of
+
 
−
Texas, annexation would have been defeated if submitted to a vote of
+
Senator {{sc|Gray.}} Then you say, "But that is against all  
−
all the inhabitants there.
+
American precedent in
−
wiTthh oe uCr HrAacIEe MhAerNe.. But in those cases the people were homogeneous
+
annexation and generally in all practice throughout  
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. AS to whites that may be.
+
the world?"
−
Senator GEAY. There was no doubt in the case of Louisiana of the
+
 
−
full authority of the French Government to make the cession.
+
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Yes.
−
• Mr. MACAETHUE. Exactly. That is the ground I take on Hawaii.
+
 
−
There were two riots in New Orleans against annexation to the United
+
Senator {{sc|Gray.}} Are you aware that Mr. Seward, when he  
−
States, and they had to send troops to put them down. The government
+
was Secretary of
−
that is in power and possession has the right to make its treaty
+
State, declared in an official paper that? "A  
−
of annexation, and there never has been in the history of the country any
+
revolutionary government is
−
precedent of its kind of a plebiscitum.
+
not to be recognized until it is established by the  
−
The CHAIEMAN. In the annexation of a country, merging its sovereignty
+
great body of the
−
into another, the question is a governmental question and not
+
population of the State it claims to govern?"
−
of the people concerned?
+
 
−
HAWAIIAN ISLANDS. 1069
+
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} No, I do not know that. What I meant  
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. Exactly; because the Government represents the
+
there was that there
−
people, as in the case of Texas.
+
had never been a case of annexation in this country  
−
The CHAIEMAN. I do not know that you remember, but it appears to
+
where the people had
−
me that at the time the treaty with Mexico was sent in by Mr. Triste,
+
voted on it.  
−
and submitted to the Senate of the United States, there was a motion
+
 
−
made to submit the question of annexation to a plebiscite. I do not
+
Senator {{sc|Frye.}} That is, the annexed population?
−
know that you remember that.
+
 
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. I do not.
+
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} The annexed population. If it had  
−
Senator GEAY. I will ask you whether you approved the pulling down
+
been, the annexation
−
of that flag by Admiral Skerrett?
+
would have been repudiated in every case.
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. "Yes; because there was no protectorate over it.
+
 
−
I prefer annexation to a protectorate. The latter gives no sovereignty;
+
The {{sc|Chairman.}} In the case of a plebiscite in Hawaii,  
−
it simply protects, and nothing else.
+
where the population
−
The CHAIEMAN. I will ask you whether there exists in Honolulu a
+
is homogeneous, there is not as much reason for having  
−
club in which men of different politics and different races and different
+
a plebiscite of our
−
nativity assemble?
+
own people for the admission of those strangers as  
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. Yes. Mr. Cleghorn is the president of it. He is
+
there would be of
−
the father of Kaiulani.
+
submitting to them in case they desired to come in?
−
The CHAIEMAN. Do gentlemen belonging to different political parties
+
 
−
and elements meet there on terms of friendship and cordiality ?
+
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Yes, in the case of Louisiana and the  
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. Entirely so. It is the most good-natured club
+
case of Texas,
−
you ever saw.
+
annexation would have been defeated if submitted to a  
−
The CHAIEMAN. And there they discuss questions of annexation?
+
vote of all the
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. It is all good-natured.
+
inhabitants there.  
−
The CHAIEMAN. They entertain discussions on that question?
+
 
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. Yes.
+
The {{sc|Chairman.}} But in those cases the people were  
−
The CHAIEMAN. Having reference to prosperity, etc. 1
+
homogeneous with our race
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. Yes.
+
here.
−
The CHAIEMAN. In those club meetings does good feeling prevail?
+
 
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. Certainly.
+
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} As to whites that may be.
−
The CHAIEMAN. Will you say, as compared with like assemblages of
+
 
−
gentlemen in the United States, there is any more feeling of friction
+
Senator {{sc|Gray.}} There was no doubt in the case of  
−
or opinion there?
+
Louisiana of the full
−
Mr. MACAUTHUE. Not as much. There is less friction through all
+
authority of the French Government to make the  
−
those islands than there is in any other country in the world that I
+
cession?
−
ever saw.
+
 
−
The CHAIEMAN. You have traveled a good deal?
+
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Exactly. That is the ground I take on  
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. Yes; all over the world.
+
Hawaii. There were
−
The CHAIEMAN. And your attention has been drawn, of course, to
+
two riots in New Orleans against annexation to the  
−
the observation of such questions?
+
United States, and they
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. Yes. They do not have any angry political discussions
+
had to send troops to put them down. The government  
−
in the streets in Hawaii. They meet together, and they are the
+
that is in power and
−
best-natured people in the world.
+
possession has the right to make its treaty of
−
The CHAIEMAN. Political divisions do not enter into the social relations
+
annexation, and there never
−
of the people?
+
has been in the history of the country any precedent
−
Mr. MAC ARTHUR. No. In Hawaii the line of rank and descent was
+
of its kind of a
−
through the mother.
+
plebiscitum.  
−
The CHAIEMAN. It is like it is among the Indian tribes of this country?
+
 
−
Mr. MACAETHUE. Yes. That is the reason they prefer to have a
+
The {{sc|Chairman.}} In the annexation of a country,  
−
Queen to a King.
+
merging its sovereignty into
−
To STENOGRAPHER: Senator MOEOAN directs that the following be
+
another, the question is a governmental question and  
−
added to my testimony. O. L. MACAETHUE.
+
not of the people
 +
concerned?  
 +
 
 +
{{p|1069}}
 +
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}}  Exactly; because the Government  
 +
represents the people, as
 +
in the case of Texas.
 +
 
 +
The {{sc|Chairman.}} I do not know that you remember, but  
 +
it appears to me that
 +
at the time the treaty with Mexico was sent in by Mr.  
 +
Triste, and submitted
 +
to the Senate of the United States, there was a motion  
 +
made to submit the
 +
question of annexation to a plebiscite. I do not know
 +
that you remember
 +
that.  
 +
 
 +
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} I do not.
 +
 
 +
Senator {{sc|Gray.}}  I will ask you whether you approved  
 +
the pulling down of that
 +
flag by Admiral Skerrett?
 +
 
 +
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Yes, because there was no  
 +
protectorate over it. I prefer
 +
annexation to a protectorate. The latter gives no  
 +
sovereignty; it simply
 +
protects, and nothing else.
 +
 
 +
The {{sc|Chairman.}} I will ask you whether there exists in  
 +
Honolulu a club in
 +
which men of different politics and different races  
 +
and different nativity
 +
assemble?  
 +
 
 +
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Yes. Mr. Cleghorn is the president of  
 +
it. He is the father
 +
of Kaiulani.  
 +
 
 +
The {{sc|Chairman.}} Do gentlemen belonging to different  
 +
political parties and
 +
elements meet there on terms of friendship and  
 +
cordiality??
 +
 
 +
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Entirely so. It is the most  
 +
good-natured club you ever saw.
 +
 
 +
The {{sc|Chairman.}} And there they discuss questions of  
 +
annexation?
 +
 
 +
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} It is all good-natured.
 +
 
 +
The {{sc|Chairman.}} They entertain discussions on that  
 +
question?
 +
 
 +
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Yes.
 +
 
 +
The {{sc|Chairman.}} Having reference to prosperity, etc.
 +
 
 +
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Yes.
 +
 
 +
The {{sc|Chairman.}} In those club meetings does good  
 +
feeling prevail?
 +
 
 +
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Certainly.
 +
 
 +
The {{sc|Chairman.}} Will you say, as compared with like  
 +
assemblages of gentlemen
 +
in the United States, there is any more feeling of  
 +
friction or opinion
 +
there?  
 +
 
 +
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Not as much. There is less friction  
 +
through all those
 +
islands than there is in any other country in the  
 +
world that I ever saw.
 +
 
 +
The {{sc|Chairman.}} You have traveled a good deal?
 +
 
 +
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Yes; all over the world.
 +
 
 +
The {{sc|Chairman.}} And your attention has been drawn, of  
 +
course, to the
 +
observation of such questions?
 +
 
 +
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Yes. They do not have any angry  
 +
political discussions in the
 +
streets in Hawaii. They meet together, and they are  
 +
the best-natured people
 +
in the world.  
 +
 
 +
The {{sc|Chairman.}} Political divisions do not enter into  
 +
the social relations
 +
of the people?  
 +
 
 +
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} No. In Hawaii the line of rank and  
 +
descent was through the
 +
mother.  
 +
 
 +
The {{sc|Chairman.}} It is like it is among the Indian  
 +
tribes of this country?
 +
 
 +
Mr. {{sc|MacArthur.}} Yes. That is the reason they prefer  
 +
to have a Queen to a
 +
King.  
 +
 
 +
To {{sc|Stenographer}}: Senator {{sc|Morgan}} directs that the  
 +
following be added to my
 +
testimony.  
 +
                 
 +
C. L. {{sc|MacArthur.}}

Latest revision as of 00:19, 6 February 2006

-p1068-

called, or other person, have you heard claim, or where have you seen in print, as you claim, that Hawaii ought not to be annexed without a majority vote of the native population?

Mr. MacArthur. The New York Times, The World, and the different administration papers that express their views, held that a vote should be taken on it.

Senator Gray. But there should not be a majority vote of the natives separated from all others?

Mr. MacArthur. I mean native whites as well as others. There is a large proportion of the population natives who are whites.

Senator Gray. Then you mean that those people contend that there should not be annexation without a vote of all the real population of those islands?

Mr. MacArthur. Yes.

Senator Frye. Of all who are to vote?

Mr. MacArthur. Yes.

Senator Gray. That is not what I mean. The majority vote of all the inhabitants of those islands who belong there either as natives or as naturalized citizens? That is what you mean?

Mr. MacArthur. Yes.

Senator Gray. Then you say, "But that is against all American precedent in annexation and generally in all practice throughout the world?"

Mr. MacArthur. Yes.

Senator Gray. Are you aware that Mr. Seward, when he was Secretary of State, declared in an official paper that? "A revolutionary government is not to be recognized until it is established by the great body of the population of the State it claims to govern?"

Mr. MacArthur. No, I do not know that. What I meant there was that there had never been a case of annexation in this country where the people had voted on it.

Senator Frye. That is, the annexed population?

Mr. MacArthur. The annexed population. If it had been, the annexation would have been repudiated in every case.

The Chairman. In the case of a plebiscite in Hawaii, where the population is homogeneous, there is not as much reason for having a plebiscite of our own people for the admission of those strangers as there would be of submitting to them in case they desired to come in?

Mr. MacArthur. Yes, in the case of Louisiana and the case of Texas, annexation would have been defeated if submitted to a vote of all the inhabitants there.

The Chairman. But in those cases the people were homogeneous with our race here.

Mr. MacArthur. As to whites that may be.

Senator Gray. There was no doubt in the case of Louisiana of the full authority of the French Government to make the cession?

Mr. MacArthur. Exactly. That is the ground I take on Hawaii. There were two riots in New Orleans against annexation to the United States, and they had to send troops to put them down. The government that is in power and possession has the right to make its treaty of annexation, and there never has been in the history of the country any precedent of its kind of a plebiscitum.

The Chairman. In the annexation of a country, merging its sovereignty into another, the question is a governmental question and not of the people concerned?

-p1069-

Mr. MacArthur. Exactly; because the Government represents the people, as in the case of Texas.

The Chairman. I do not know that you remember, but it appears to me that at the time the treaty with Mexico was sent in by Mr. Triste, and submitted to the Senate of the United States, there was a motion made to submit the question of annexation to a plebiscite. I do not know that you remember that.

Mr. MacArthur. I do not.

Senator Gray. I will ask you whether you approved the pulling down of that flag by Admiral Skerrett?

Mr. MacArthur. Yes, because there was no protectorate over it. I prefer annexation to a protectorate. The latter gives no sovereignty; it simply protects, and nothing else.

The Chairman. I will ask you whether there exists in Honolulu a club in which men of different politics and different races and different nativity assemble?

Mr. MacArthur. Yes. Mr. Cleghorn is the president of it. He is the father of Kaiulani.

The Chairman. Do gentlemen belonging to different political parties and elements meet there on terms of friendship and cordiality??

Mr. MacArthur. Entirely so. It is the most good-natured club you ever saw.

The Chairman. And there they discuss questions of annexation?

Mr. MacArthur. It is all good-natured.

The Chairman. They entertain discussions on that question?

Mr. MacArthur. Yes.

The Chairman. Having reference to prosperity, etc.

Mr. MacArthur. Yes.

The Chairman. In those club meetings does good feeling prevail?

Mr. MacArthur. Certainly.

The Chairman. Will you say, as compared with like assemblages of gentlemen in the United States, there is any more feeling of friction or opinion there?

Mr. MacArthur. Not as much. There is less friction through all those islands than there is in any other country in the world that I ever saw.

The Chairman. You have traveled a good deal?

Mr. MacArthur. Yes; all over the world.

The Chairman. And your attention has been drawn, of course, to the observation of such questions?

Mr. MacArthur. Yes. They do not have any angry political discussions in the streets in Hawaii. They meet together, and they are the best-natured people in the world.

The Chairman. Political divisions do not enter into the social relations of the people?

Mr. MacArthur. No. In Hawaii the line of rank and descent was through the mother.

The Chairman. It is like it is among the Indian tribes of this country?

Mr. MacArthur. Yes. That is the reason they prefer to have a Queen to a King.

To Stenographer: Senator Morgan directs that the following be added to my testimony.

C. L. MacArthur.

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