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Senator GRAY. Very well: state anything else that occurred in the sequence of events of that day in your observation?

Mr. STALKER. The Hawaiian flag was floating from the mast over on the palace.

The CHAIRMAN. On the palace?

Mr. STALKER. Yes; on the Queen's palace. And I observed couriers or orderlies going back and forth. I did not know the significance of it, but observed individuals go from one building to the other; they passed the guards at both places, came in and went out, and this sort of thing was kept up certainly for a half hour or longer without any visible change taking place anywhere.

The CHAIRMAN. By the palace do you mean Iolani Palace?

Mr. STALKER. Yes; that is the palace as distinguished from the Government building, where state business is transacted. After a little the flag on the palace came down, and there was a murmur through the crowd that the Queen had probably surrendered; that the flag was down. But a moment later it was pulled up again. It seems it was being adjusted. Then a cheer went through the crowd when the flag was pulled up; but a little later a native Hawaiian came out and lowered the flag, and pretty soon the word went through the crowd on the streets that the Queen had surrendered. A little later it was in print, what doubtless has been presented in evidence here a good many times, that the Queen had surrendered "To the superior military forces of the United States."

The CHAIRMAN. I would like you to give the day and the time of day exactly when that occurred.

Mr. STALKER. When the flag came down?

Senator GRAY. Mr. Stalker has already said it was Tuesday, the 17th of January.

Mr. STALKER. Yes; Tuesday, the 17th. And this was late in the afternoon. I could not say what time of day it was. I believe it was between 3 and 4, possibly as late as 4 o'clock, though I would not be positive as to the time of day.

Senator GRAY. Was it not as late as 5?

Mr. STALKER. That the flag came down?

Senator GRAY. Yes.

Mr. STALKER. It might have been. Let me see. About 2 the ball really opened over there, and it might possibly have been as late as 5. I should say it was as late as 5 when the flag came down. There was a good deal of delay, parleying back and forth, until pretty well along in the afternoon.

Senator GRAY. You were on the streets all this time, from the time you went up after dinner to the public building to the time of the events which you have described as coming under your observation; did you continue in the streets of Honolulu?

Mr. STALKER. I was back and forth after getting some information. When I first went over I remained a time, half an hour, possibly longer than that, and then went back to the hotel to tell some of my friends there, who were in a pretty uneasy state of mind, what had occurred. I then came out on the street, and I was on the street during the afternoon and evening.

Senator GRAY. Did you hear anything said during that afternoon and evening in regard to the presence of the United States troops?

Mr. STALKER. Yes; I heard frequent remarks about their presence.

Senator GRAY. And the significance of their presence?

Mr. STALKER. Yes; I believe I did.

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Senator GRAY. What was it, as you understand it?

Mr. STALKER. This query came up, probably in some conversation with people sitting about in the hotel: " If the troops were there to protect property, why did they not protect that building, its offices and treasury, against parties who came there with arms in their hands, and nobody presumably knowing what they were going to do and what they were there for?"

The CHAIRMAN. To what offices do you refer?

Mr. STALKER. The permanent offices of the Hawaiian Government.

The CHAIRMAN. The Government building?

Mr. STALKER. Yes; the Government building generally.

Senator GRAY. When you got back to the hotel after the proclamation of the new Government and the hauling down of the flag was everything quiet that evening?

Mr. STALKER. Yes.

Senator GRAY. Do you know what gave that sense of repose? I ask the question in this form: Was it confidence in this newly established Government and its ability to preserve order, or was it the presence of the United States troops?

Mr. STALKER. That I would not be able to answer. As I said before, I saw no street demonstration or acts of violence; nor did I hear threats during this time, either before or after.

The CHAIRMAN. You have been speaking about the impressions you derived from conversations you heard at the time you have indicated. Can you trace those conversations to any particular individuals— those remarks?

Mr. STALKER. I do not believe I can. A number of us was at the hotel, and a good many I did not know the names of. We engaged in miscellaneous conversation, and remarks were frequently made by persons whom I did not know.

The CHAIRMAN. Were these men who have any connection with the political movement there either for the Queen or against her?

Mr. STALKER. No, I think not; they were people who, like myself, were simply standing by.

The CHAIRMAN. Disinterested observers, or rather observers of matters with which they were not connected?

Mr. STALKER. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. I suppose it was very much as it would be with any other discussion of a current event by gentlemen looking on and observing without having any participation at all?

Mr. STALKER. Yes.

Senator GRAY. You were not partisans of either party?

Mr. STALKER. No.

Senator GRAY. On the next day what seemed to be the condition of things?

The CHAIRMAN. That would be Wednesday?

Senator GRAY. Wednesday; yes.

Mr. STALKER. Matters were quiet. I was in and out of the hotel and on the streets around in front of the public buildings. I think on Wednesday I was in Mr. Severance's office. He was our consul at that time, and he gave me a pass or permit which entitled me to go to the building. I had been there a good many times; had a good many acquaintances in the office; and I went in and out and talked to them. I think it was next day that Mr. Severance gave me a pass.

Senator GRAY. Hid you hear any discussion of the events of the day before?