Template:606-607

-p606-

cabinet, so as to get authority, power, to enact the opium bill and the lottery bill—what was the impression?

Mr. Spalding. The impression as to the means that she used?

The Chairman. Yes.

Mr. Spalding. I do not know that I got any very definite idea, except what seemed the result, perhaps, of my own previous knowledge. For instance, on the island of Kauai we elected one of the nobles at the previous election; elected him on the reform ticket. We considered him just as much a member of that Reform party as Mr. Jones, Mr. Wilcox, or anybody else. He was an ignorant old fellow, but goodnatured. As there did not seem to be anybody on the island willing to spend the time to attend the sessions of the Legislature, and as this old fellow was willing to go—of course he had to pay his own expenses— he was nominated by this Reform party. He was considered just as good a man, so far as his principles were concerned, as good a Reformist as anyone else. But it was his vote that had been obtained in some way or other which gave the Queen the balance of power—his and that of the son-in-law of this Judge Weidemann. Of course, at the time I left there was no doubt of this noble from Kauai continuing to vote, as he had done before, with the Reform party. But he was a great friend of Paul Neumann who came on here, you remember, in the interest of the Queen. He probably gained this vote for the Queen. Paul Neumann had been in the previous cabinet—had been elected to the Legislature as a noble from Honolulu; only a few months before that he had been elected by a sort of joint vote. The cabinet went out for want of confidence, and he was out of it entirely. This man from Kauai was a sugar planter. We always supposed that he would vote in the same lines that he had always expressed his opinions. We knew his opinions, and he was nominated by this Reform party, nominated against a man who was running as an Independent, but more in favor of the Queen's party than the Reform party. But it was losing this vote that upset the whole thing. I had no reason to think it would happen at the time I left Honolulu.

The Chairman. What is the opinion, the belief, of the men engaged there in promoting the interests of what you call the reform party as to these men having been corruptly influenced to go into the meshes of the Queen and vote for the opium bill and the lottery bill? What did you find to be the state of opinion in Hawaii about that when you returned?

Mr. Spalding. I found this—that the men who voted for that opium bill and lottery bill were the men who were known and acknowledged there as being the most corrupt, men of the least reputation. Some of the natives, for instance, with no shadow of reputation, belong to that class or party.

The Chairman. The class that voted for these bills?

Mr. Spalding. That voted for these bills.

The Chairman. I am speaking of the change.

Mr. Spalding. You mean the effect, the change by which the votes from the reform party were carried over?

The Chairman. What is the opinion as to the means employed to procure this change?

Mr. Spalding. Some claim that money was used and others bribery of one kind and another. But I do not think there was any more bribery used than is general in such cases. I think this man from Kauai was influenced more by Paul Neumann simply talking to him.

-p607-

They are both Germans, and he has a great idea of Paul Neumann's greatness. My own idea would be that he was more influenced by Neumann than any other influence.

The Chairman. That is your idea?

Mr. Spalding. Yes.

The Chairman. What is the prevailing idea or opinion on that sub ject? Mr. Spalding. A great many think there was bribery used.

Senator Gray. And others agree with the opinion you express?

Mr. Spalding. I suppose so. But, of course, I could not say much of my own knowledge how the people did regard it. I do not think I paid much attention to it. I know that I heard with a great deal of astonishment of this old fellow from Kauai and his false position toward the reform party.

Senator Gray. Was he a native?

Mr. Spalding. No, a German. He married a native, had a native wife.

The Chairman. What is the present state of things in the Hawaiian Islands?

Mr. Spalding. It is quite depressed. Of course, certain lines of business that have to be carried on, cultivation of the cane, manufacture of the sugar, and moving of the sugar are going on; but what you call mercantile business, selling supplies and other things, is very much depressed, because of the low price of sugar.

The Chairman. Is it want of confidence in the Government that produces this depression?

Mr. Spalding. No.

The Chairman. Do the people of Hawaii, the native Kanakas, seem to resent this change in the Government?

Mr. Spalding. I have never seen anything that indicated a marked sentiment.

The Chairman. You were on your estate there, were you?

Mr. Spalding. Yes.

The Chairman. Saw the people who were there?

Mr. Spalding. Yes.

The Chairman. Did they exhibit any dissatisfaction at the existing state of affairs?

Mr. Spalding. No. They have talked among themselves, not with me, but I have heard of their talking about their having something to say in the Government; that is, having a vote, the franchise the same as they had been in the habit of having it. But at the same time I do not think they care particularly about that. I do not think they are much interested in that. If you will allow me to say it—without blowing my own trumpet;—when it was asked of the natives in my neighborhood what they thought of the annexation question, they said they wanted first to know what Spalding thought about it; if he did not want to have it, they did not. It shows that I am a sort of adviser to them. They come to me with all their troubles.

The Chairman. Have you always occupied that position toward them?

Mr. Spalding. Yes.

The Chairman. Do you enjoy the confidence of the natives?

Mr. Spalding. Yes, the best of them, because they always know that they can come to me, and my manager when I am away, and have any benefits which are necessary, any assistance which is necessary. For