1064-1065
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her royal authority, for a moneyed consideration. Give us your knowledge about that, and you can go on and state the whole affair in your own way.
Mr. MacArthur. I went to Mr. Dole. I had trouble in my own mind as to whether the Queen had not some personal rights in the crown lands, for the reason that the treasury department had never asked her to make a return on the income, which was about $75,000 a year, from these lands and which she had received, and as the treasury had never asked her for a return I thought she had an individual right in the lands. I said to the people, "She has individual rights, and you have not asked her to make a return to the treasury of what she has received and what she did not receive." The President explained it all to me, the grounds of it. When Mr. Neuman indicated that they were willing-I had made the suggestion and others had-that they ought to buy her out, pay her a definite sum, $25,000 or some other sum per year for her rights. Her rights had been shattered, but I thought they ought to pay for them, and so I went, in accordance with Mr. Neuman's suggestion, or by his consent, to see President Dole.
Mr. Neuman said he wanted to talk with President Dole about this matter, but he had not been there officially, and he could not go there publicly to his official place. I talked with Mr. Dole, and Mr. Dole said he could not officially do anything without consulting his executive committee, but he said he would be very happy to meet Mr. Neuman and see what they wanted-see if they could come to any terms about this thing by which the Queen would abdicate and surrender her rights. Then he said, "Where will Mr. Neuman like to meet me?" After we talked it over we thought Mr. Neuman would not be willing to come there publicly, and so it was suggested that Mr. Neuman could call on Mr. Dole at his house on a given evening and bring his daughter along.
The Chairman. Do you remember what evening that was?
Mr. MacArthur. I do not remember. And in accordance with that, Mr. Neuman and his daughter called, nominally for the daughter to see Mrs. Dole, so that it could not get out, if they made a call, they could say it was merely a social call, not an official call. Of course, I do not know what their conversation was; but Mr. Neuman, acting on that, called on the Queen. Mr. Dole and Mr. Neuman both impressed on me the importance of not having this thing get out, or the whole thing would go up in smoke. Mr. Neuman said he could bring this thing about if he could keep it from the Queen's retainers-her people. He said, "That is the difficulty about this thing." This matter went on for three or four days. Mr. Neuman saw the Queen and she agreed not to say anything about it, so Mr. Neuman tells me, and I got it from other sources there which I think are reliable. They came to some sort of understanding; I do not know what it was. They went so far as to say this woman would not live over three or four years; that she had some heart trouble; and if they gave her $25,000 a year it would not be for along time.
The Chairman. As an annuity?
Mr. MacArthur. Yes; and Mr. Neuman said she assented to it, if she could satisfy one or two of her people.
The Chairman. From whom did you get the understanding that the Queen assented to it?
Mr. MacArthur. I got it from Mr. Neuman, who was her attorney, and others.
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The Chairman. Was any provision included in that proposed arrangement in favor of the Princess Kaiulani?
Mr. MacArthur. No; in fact, they were a little bit antagonistic.
The Chairman. Was Mr. Neuman acting as the agent of Kaiulani?
Mr. MacArthur. No; As I understand, he never was the agent of Kaiulani, but of Lilioukalani.
Senator Frye. The last 25 or 30 lines of this letter which you have put in as your testimony clearly ought not to come in as testimony, it being certain criticisms of political action. I want to ask you to leave that out.
Mr. MacArthur. Yes; I will leave it out.
The Chairman. You desire to leave out of your statement the last part of it, because it is mere comment?
Mr. MacArthur. Yes; mere comment.
Senator Gray. When did you go to the Hawaiian Islands?
Mr. MacArthur. It was early in March, I think. I went there two or three steamers before the one on which Mr. Blount went.
Senator Gray. You were there when Mr. Blount arrived?
Mr. MacArthur. Yes.
Senator Gray. Where did you stop when you went there?
Mr. MacArthur. Both at the same hotel.
Senator Gray. You were stopping at that hotel when Mr. Blount arrived†?
Mr. MacArthur. Yes. He had a cottage in the grounds.
Senator Gray. Is that the hotel where tourists are likely to stop?
Mr. MacArthur. Yes.
Senator Gray. How long did you remain there?
Mr. MacArthur. Seven or eight weeks; I do not quite remember.
Senator Gray. Do you remember what day of the month you got back?
Mr. MacArthur. I got back home the 20th of May.
Senator Gray. Did you come straight back?
Mr. MacArthur. Yes.
Senator Gray. It would take about two weeks direct travel to come from Hawaii to your home?
Mr. MacArthur. It takes six days by steamer from Honolulu to San Francisco and four or five days across the continent home.
Senator Gray. I understand your testimony to be that you were in the islands for your health?
Mr. MacArthur. I went there exclusively for leisure. I saw such a condition of things that I went to investigating.
Senator Gray. I understand from what you have just said, and that has not been made of record, that you believe in the general policy of the Nicaraguan Canal and the annexation of these islands?
Mr. MacArthur. Yes.
Senator Gray. You are what may be called an annexationist?
Mr. MacArthur. Yes.
Senator Gray. Of course, you think that annexation would be for the benefit of the people of the United States?
Mr. MacArthur. I do, decidedly. I did not go there an annexationist; but when I found the conditions of things there, I changed my views about it.
Senator Gray. Had you been there before?
Mr. MacArthur. No.
Senator Gray. You had not been in the islands before?
Mr. MacArthur. No.
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