610-611
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Senator Frye. In the estimate of the property held by the Americans at $50,000,000, what would be your estimate of the property held by others, in good times?
Mr. Spalding. You want to divide it up among the Americans, English people, etc.
Senator Frye. What is the proportion held by the natives and what is the proportion held by the whites of the islands?
The Chairman. Of all nationalities?
Mr. Spalding. I should say at least nine-tenths.
Senator Frye. And of that, what proportion is held by the Americans?
Mr. Spalding. Probably of all the whites over three-fourths by Americans; that is, what we call Americans, people born there of American parentage.
The Chairman. So that the representation in the National Legislature of Hawaii, so far as the natives are concerned, is a very small proportion of the real wealth of the country?
Mr. Spalding. A very small proportion. No natives have property. This man Parker, who was in the last cabinet of the Queen, and who is the Queen's mainstay now, was the nephew of a half white, who died some time ago, leaving him a large property. But he squandered it all; he is bankrupt; and some say he has spent $300,000—I suppose he has spent $150,000—in the last six or eight years.
Senator Frye. Is he a dissipated man?
Mr. Spalding. He is not a common drunkard, by any means, but a careless man, spendthrift.
Senator Gray. Who is that?
Mr. Spalding. Samuel Parker, the minister of foreign affairs under Liliuokalani.
The Chairman. In the last cabinet?
Mr. Spalding. Yes. He is now a bankrupt. He was left a large estate by his uncle.
The Chairman. Since your return, in the situation of affairs have you discovered any organization, or effort at an organization, for the purpose of overturning the Provisional Government and reinstatinng the Queen?
Mr. Spalding. I have not seen any, what you might call an organization; I have only heard these same parties who have been opposed to what we call the reform party, talking about restoring the Queen----men like Wilson. But it was only when they expected to have aid and assistance from the United States in doing it. I have not heard of their having any organization of their own. I have heard they have arms secreted, but I do not think the Provisional Government have any fear of that.
The Chairman. If Liliuokalani were restored to the throne under existing conditions, do you believe she would be able to retain her seat on the throne?
Mr. Spalding. Not unless the people who are at present in power were disarmed, and the arms given to somebody else, and the people prevented getting any other arms.
The Chairman. That is not practical, is it?
Mr. Spalding. I do not think it is. There is no power to put Liliuokalani back on the throne, except a force sufficient to oust the Provisional Government and sufficient force to support the monarchy after it is in power.
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The Chairman. Do you think that would have to come from abroad?
Mr. Spalding. I think so. After this attempt the people there could not keep it up.
The Chairman. Suppose that France, the United States, England, Germany, Japan, and China should strictly adhere to the doctrine of noninterference in the present affairs of Liliuokalani or any other person—allow them to conduct political affairs in those islands—do you believe that the Kanaka sentiment, the sentiment of the native Indian, is of such a character that Liliuokalani or Kaiulana could build up a royal dynasty in Hawaii?
Mr. Spalding. No, not so long as the white foreigner, white people, desire to maintain the ascendency. I think they can do it in spite of any force, internal, that may be brought against them.
The Chairman. You mean, as against the opposition of the membership of the present Government and its supporters, that it would not be practicable to reinstate a monarchy in Hawaii?
Mr. Spalding. Not without a force from the outside. But there could a time come when all this would be changed. Perhaps I am a little different from many persons who live in the country; I do not regard the country simply. Of course, it is fertile in some spots, the climate is a beautiful one or favorable one, but simply on that account I do not think that there is a great future for Hawaii in sugar. Hawaii is not a sugar country, and with all our advantages—and we have given more thought to the business and developed it to a higher scientific degree than any other sugar country known—at the same time I am quite confident that with all those advantages, with capital I could go to the island of Cuba, and with my knowledge of the sugar business I could produce sugar for $10 a ton—half a cent cheaper than in Hawaii. Hence I do not regard Hawaii as a sugar country, a valuable country. We would not have arrived at the point we are now except for the benefits from the reciprocity treaty. We received great encouragement from that; received what you might term a large bonus from the United States, and the money received was put into these plantations to build them up. Consequently we are in a very favorable position to manufacture sugar. With our advanced methods and all the advantages of machinery we can make sugar fully as cheap, perhaps (in our best places, I now speak of), as any other sugar countries. But our labor is necessarily high; there is nothing to induce laborers to come there except wages, of course, and we have not enough of that population in the country to supply the wants. Consequently, when the price of sugar goes down as it is now, our plantations are valueless.
The Chairman. You mean they are not profitable?
Mr. Spalding. Not profitable—valueless as producers of revenue. Last year we received as high as 41/2 cents a pound for sugar; that was the market price; this year it is down to 27/8 cents per pound.
The Chairman. You do not consider Hawaii a natural sugar country, as being very superior to or the equal of other countries. What advantages are in that country?
Mr. Spalding. I do not think there are any advantages except the climate. I saw advantage in the reciprocity treaty, and I would not have stayed there had it not been for reciprocity; because before the reciprocity treaty had passed all the plantations had gone through bankruptcy. I do not think there was a single plantation that had not gone into bankruptcy.
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