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The Chairman. What was your duty on shipboard?

Mr. Moore. I was navigator of the U. S. S. Boston.

The Chairman. In January, 1893?

Mr. Moore. January, 1893; yes.

The Chairman. Before your cruise down to Hilo and Lahaina had you been ashore often?

Mr. Moore. I had.

The Chairman. Were you acquainted with the state of public opinion then as to the political affairs of the Government in Honolulu?

Mr. Moore. Somewhat; I can not say that I was thoroughly acquainted with the political status.

The Chairman. Did you observe any agitation or commotion amongst the people in respect to a change of government, or in respect to annexation, or any other matter that was of a serious character?

Mr. Moore. This was before we went to Hilo?

The Chairman. Before.

Mr. Moore. No, I did not. I heard annexation spoken of prior to our departure, and as far back as twenty years ago.

The Chairman. You were there at Honolulu twenty years ago?

Mr. Moore. I was there twenty years ago this coming February; yes.

The Chairman. What ship were you on?

Mr. Moore. The United States ship Portsmouth.

The Chairman. Under whose command?

Mr. Moore. S. J. Skerrett, now Rear-Admiral.

The Chairman. What year was that?

Mr. Moore. 1874; I was there the latter part of 1873 and early part of 1874.

The Chairman. Who was then King of Hawaii?

Mr. Moore. In 1873, when I was out there, Lunalilo was King. In 1874, about the time of our arrival, February, 1874, David Kalakaua was elected King.

The Chairman. The agitation that occurred at that time was the controversy, as you understand it, over the election of Queen Emma as the successor of Lunalilo, or Kalakaua?

Mr. Moore. It was.

The Chairman. Was there any commotion there at the time?

Mr. Moore. There was great commotion.

The Chairman. Was it confined to the natives, or was it spread through all the community?

Mr. Moore. There was considerable excitement and great interest through the entire community; but the rioting was confined entirely to the natives.

The Chairman. Was the riot before or after the determination of the election of Kalakaua?

Mr. Moore. After.

The Chairman. Was it serious rioting?

Mr. Moore. It was serious rioting, so much so that the United States forces were called upon to suppress it.

The Chairman. Was it attended with arson and other crimes of that nature?

Mr. Moore. It was not; but what the result would have been had the United States forces not been landed and the riot immediately suppressed, I do not know; it would undoubtedly have been very serious.


The Chairman. The commotion was, therefore, radical and severe?

Mr. Moore. It was.

The Chairman. You say the United States forces were called at the instance of the Government. What Government?

Mr. Moore. I did not intend to say at the instance of the Government; but we were called through the American minister. And I am under the impression that the request was made on him by the governor of the Island of Oahu.

The Chairman. There were governors in those islands?

Mr. Moore. Yes.

The Chairman. Were there any other ships of war there?

Mr. Moore. Yes; the U. S. S. Tuscarora and the English ship Tenedos.

The Chairman. Were there any British forces landed?

Mr. Moore. Yes; our forces landed first, followed by the British forces. The United States forces were on the shore perhaps twenty minutes before the British forces landed.

The Chairman. How long did they remain on shore?

Mr. Moore. From one to two weeks; I do not remember the exact time.

The Chairman. Did they camp on shore?

Mr. Moore. Yes.

The Chairman. Do you recollect what buildings they occupied? Mr. Moore. The United States forces were quartered in two buildings; one, the legislative building or hall, the other the armory. Both of these were near the landing. The British troops were quartered at the palace.

The Chairman. Iolani Palace?

Mr. Moore. Yes; Iolani Palace.

The Chairman. This legislative hall of which you speak was near the landing?

Mr. Moore. It was.

The Chairman. Was it then the Government building? Mr. Moore. It was then the Government building, and corresponded to what is now known as the Government building. The name of that building I do not remember, but it corresponds to what is now spoken of as the Government building.

The Chairman. The barracks of the King's army, and in which one of your detachments was quartered ?

Mr. Moore. I think the Government militia's armory; I think that is what it was called. I think it was the armory of the milita, not of the regular troops.

The Chairman. Do you recollect who was then the commander of the King's forces, the Government forces?

Mr. Moore. I think it was Berger; but I am not sure.

The Chairman. Was he an American or native?

Mr. Moore. A German or Austrian, I think. That I am not positive of.

The Chairman. During the time of the stay of the troops on the island on that occasion, was there any conflict between them and the people.

Mr. Moore. There was none. The people had broken into the legislative hall and had attaked the legislators with billets of wood, legs of tables, and such other offensive weapons as they could get hold of, and also pitched one or more of the representatives out of the window or windows, 20 feet or more above the ground. As soon as we


arrived on the spot the rioting ceased. The British troops came shortly afterward. The riot started again; then we surrounded the buildings and arrested the leaders of the riot. After that, at about 10 or 11 o'clock that night, there were some stones thrown at the building, and we turned out and patrolled a portion of the town; and again, about 11 o'clock that night, a shot was fired, apparently at our sentry, which was returned by the sentry, and we again patrolled the town. But we could find nobody. From that time on everything was perfectly quiet.

The Chairman. What did you do with those persons who were arrested?

Mr. Moore. Turned them over to the Hawaiian authorities.

The Chairman. Were the arrests numerous?

Mr. Moore. I think possibly eight or ten ; I do not think more.

The Chairman. Were they the ringleaders of the rioters?

Mr. Moore. Yes.

The Chairman. Did your detachment carry flags along?

Mr. Moore. We did with our detachment.

The Chairman. Was there a flag raised over your camp when you went into quarters—United States flag?

Mr. Moore. Yes.

The Chairman. That flag was taken down when your troops returned aboard ship?

Mr. Moore. Yes.

The Chairman. During that period you say you heard annexation spoken of?

Mr. Moore. I heard annexation to the United States spoken of at that time; during our stay; not necessarily during this riot.

The Chairman. Was the subject generally discussed or not?

Mr. Moore. I can not say that it was generally discussed; but I remember its having been spoken of by some gentleman there as being the ultimate destiny of the Hawaiian Islands. And no later than during the past visit, Judge Widemann stated in a talk that he had with some of us, that he had predicted it prior to our visit twenty years ago.

The Chairman. So that it was in contemplation amongst the people who were speculating about the future?

Mr. Moore. It was.

The Chairman. Did you find during that visit, in 1874, any organized body of men for the purpose of promoting annexation?

Mr. Moore. None that I heard of.

The Chairman. It was merely a question that was one of the problems of the time, being discussed among the people?

Mr. Moore. A problem of the future.

The Chairman. We will come down to this other period. About what time of day did your ship, the Boston, return to Honolulu from its cruise down to Hilo?

Mr. Moore. After 10 o'clock a. m.—a little after that time.

The Chairman. Before the ship arrived, while you were at Hilo or Lahaina, had you heard that the ministry had been voted out of office?

Mr. Moore. I had.

The Chairman. Was there any statement made in regard to its having created commotion?

Mr. Moore. What I heard was that the ministry was voted out, the lottery bill passed, and the opium bill passed, and that there was great excitement in Honolulu.


The Chairman. And before you left for this cruise had you heard any discussion of the lottery bill and opium bill?

Mr. Moore. I had heard them spoken of.

The Chairman. You knew it was a subject of legislative inquiry and action?

Mr. Moore. I did.

The Chairman. I suppose you knew nothing about the agents who were promoting these bills, the lottery and opium bills?

Mr. Moore. I heard them spoken of generally. But they were persons of whom I knew nothing, in any way.

The Chairman. When you returned to Honolulu did you ascertain that there was an agitated feeling there?

Mr. Moore. Yes; there was.

The Chairman. Did you go on shore?

Mr. Moore. I went on shore at about 1 o'clock p. m.

The Chairman. On Saturday?

Mr. Moore. On Saturday, the 14th.

The Chairman. Describe as nearly as you can what yon saw on your visit ashore on that occasion—the events that attracted your attention.

Mr. Moore. The men on the streets seemed to be gathered in little knots of 3 and 4 and more, discussing something, apparently the situation.

The Chairman. When you went ashore were you in uniform?

Mr. Moore. I was not. And there appeared to be more or less excitement; they were passing from one batch to another, asking, "What is the news?" "What is the latest?" "What is going to be done?"

The Chairman. You can describe it, I suppose, as an anxious state of feeling?

Mr. Moore. Anxious state of feeling. No one seemed to know what was going to occur, so far as I saw.

The Chairman. Did you see any large assemblage of men there at any place?

Mr. Moore. I did not; no larger, perhaps, than six or eight.

The Chairman. Did you attend either of the mass meetings that were held there?

Mr. Moore. I did not.

The Chairman. Did you see them?

Mr. Moore. No.

The Chairman. In these conversations was your attention attracted to anything that was said about the Queen; what she had done or was going to do in regard to the constitution of the Kingdom?

Mr. Moore. Yes; I was told that she had signed the lottery bill and the opium bill; had appointed a cabinet of her own liking, and had prorogued the Legislature; and it was rumored that she would that afternoon declare a new constitution.

The Chairman. Was that current rumor on the street?

Mr. Moore. It was current rumor on the street.

The Chairman. Could you state it as a common belief that she would do so, so far as you heard it?

Mr. Moore. I think that was a common belief that afternoon.

The Chairman. Did you hear any one contradict it?

Mr. Moore. No.

The Chairman. Do you recollect any of the individuals with whom you conversed on that occasion?

Mr. Moore. With Mr. McInerney and his two sons, and Mr. Wilcox


and Mr. Robinson, both members of the cabinet that had been just voted out. Others I do not remember.

The Chairman. Were those men chiefly the ones from whom you derived your information of what occurred?

Mr. Moore. Yes.

The Chairman. And what was intended to be done?

Mr. Moore. Yes.

The Chairman. That the Queen had signed the new constitution, or intended to do so?

Mr. Moore. Intended to do so. The rumor was that she had proclaimed a new constitution; but the fact was that she intended to do so.

The Chairman. How long did you remain ashore?

Mr. Moore. Until 7 o'clock the next morning.

The Chairman. You remained during the night?

Mr. Moore. I remained during the night, not in that part, but out of the thickest part of the town, where I then had a cottage.

The Chairman. Was your family there?

Mr. Moore. My wife was residing there at that time.

The Chairman. How long had your family resided in Honolulu?

Mr. Moore. Three months and a half at that time.

The Chairman. Were there any patrols, or bodies of men moving about in your part of the town that night?

Mr. Moore. I saw and heard of none.

The Chairman. Did you feel any apprehension during the night of incendiary fires?

Mr. Moore. Not at that time.

The Chairman. You reported back to the ship the next morning.

Mr. Moore. The next morning, the morning of the 15th.

The Chairman. Did you visit the shore after that?

Mr. Moore. I did; went ashore late in the afternoon of the 15th— sometime during the afternoon of the 15th—and remained until the morning of the 16th.

The Chairman. Spending the night again at your cottage?

Mr. Moore. At my cottage.

The Chairman. When you arrived in Honolulu that Sunday evening, did you find any bodies of armed men in the street?

Mr. Moore. I saw no bodies of armed men in the street then.

The Chairman. Did you know whether there had been any organization at that time of a committee of safety, or any other organization for the protection of the people?

Mr. Moore. There were many rumors flying about, and among the rumors was one that a committee of safety of 13 or 16—a committee of safety of citizens—had been appointed Saturday afternoon, the 14th, and that they were having meetings continually to consult with citizens; and then on Sunday rumors were going about to the effect that there were organized bodies of citizens' troops. But I saw none of them and knew nothing definite. Those rumors were rumors of the reorganization of what was called the old militia—reorganizing the old militia was spoken of generally.

The Chairman. When you got back to the ship on Monday, how long did you remain aboard?

Mr. Moore. I returned to the ship Monday morning between 7 and 8 o'clock, and went ashore that forenoon on duty.

The Chairman. What duty ?

Mr. Moore. Testing compasses—making an examination on shore,


away from any iron or other attraction, of all the ship's compasses. I returned about 12 o'clock. While on shore I saw no one to get any news from but when I returned to the ship I found preparations—I found several rumors had reached the ship, how, I do not just remember and orders had been issued for the officers to remain on board ship until further orders. There was talk of the forces being called upon to land at any time, because it was thought that a riot would break out in Honolulu at any time. But the nature of the riot anticipated I did not know.

The Chairman. Was the ship being put in any preparation for the landing of the forces?

Mr. Moore. Whether it had commenced already I do not know; but if not, it was commenced very soon after my return.

The Chairman. Do you recollect the time that Minister Stevens came on board?

Mr. Moore. It was in the early part of the afternoon; what hour I do not remember.

The Chairman. The preparations for landing the troops had already been made before he came on board?

Mr. Moore. That I can not say; I think some had been. I will say that some preparations had been made.

The Chairman. The orders had been communicated before?

Mr. Moore. Yes; hours before.

The Chairman. Did you have any conversation with Mr. Stevens when became on board?

Mr. Moore. No.

The Chairman. Or hear any between him and Capt. Wiltse?

Mr. Moore. No.

The Chairman. Did you receive orders to go ashore?

Mr. Moore. No; being navigating officer my position was on board ship. I remained there.

The Chairman. Did you remain there during that evening and night?

Mr. Moore. I remained on board ship for ten days or two weeks.

The Chairman. Without going home at all?

Mr. Moore. I remained on board two weeks or more, going home only for a few minutes, perhaps once or twice. On one or two occasions I went up to my home, but returned at once.

Senator Butler. Where was your home?

The Chairman. He had a cottage for his family.

Senator Butler. In Honolulu?

The Chairman. Yes.

Mr. Moore. My home was about a mile from the landing.

The Chairman. During the landing of those troops you had very little opportunity of going home?

Mr. Moore. Very little opportunity. I saw my wife and perhaps some ladies.

The Chairman. Was it on land or on ship that you understood the Provisional Government had been organized?

Mr. Moore. On ship I heard of it.

The Chairman. After you returned on Monday?

Mr. Moore. The Provisional Government was not announced until Tuesday.

The Chairman. You first heard it on board ship?

Mr. Moore. I did.

The Chairman. All the troops had gone before you first heard that?


Mr. Moore. The troops landed about half past 4 on Monday, the 16th, and the Provisional Government was not declared until Tuesday, the 17th, about 3 o'clock.

The Chairman. Do you know of any recall of the troops to the ship in that interval of time, or whether they had started to debark?

Mr. Moore. No; nothing of the kind. If there had been I would have heard of it, being the executive officer, the one who carries out the orders of the commanding officer.

The Chairman. Do you think you would have known if any organization had existed in Honolulu to overthrow the government of the Queen, or any organization for annexation to the United States up to, we will say, Monday, until you returned to the ship? Do you think you would have known it had it existed among the people of Honolulu?

Mr. Moore. Do you mean between Saturday and Monday?

The Chairman. Yes.

Mr. Moore. An organization undoubtedly did exist Saturday afternoon.

The Chairman. The committee of safety?

Mr. Moore. The committee of safety. And that organization was generally known. But what the object of that organization was I did not hear.

The Chairman. I speak more particularly of an organization to overthrow the Queen, or an organization for annexation to the United States. Did you hear of anything of that sort, while you were on shore, as being consummated or in process of consummation?

Mr. Moore. I heard annexation to the United States talked of that Saturday afternoon.

The Chairman. But you heard that twenty years ago?

Mr. Moore. I heard the same thing twenty years before.

The Chairman. I am speaking now of an actual, open organization to overthrow the Queen, or an open organization to annex Hawaii to the United States. If there had been such an organization on Sunday evening and Monday morning when you visited home, do you think you would have known it—I mean if it had existed in that form?. Perhaps I can make my question a little more distinct. You had heard of the organization of the committee of safety between Sunday evening when you went over to your house and Monday when you returned on board ship?

Mr. Moore. I had heard of the organization of the committee of safety on Saturday, the 14th.

The Chairman. The question is, whether you heard that it was an organization for overthrowing the Queen and the annexation of Hawaii to the United States.

Mr. Moore. My understanding was that it was in opposition to the Queen.

The Chairman. That was the beginning of it?

Mr. Moore. That was the beginning of it. I do not recollect hearing of any organization at that time for annexation to the United States, although annexation was spoken of quite freely, and a desire for it expressed on the streets by the business men.

The Chairman. Before the Boston went on that cruise to Hilo you did not hear of any such organization?

Mr. Moore. I did not.

The Chairman. Do you think if it had existed you would have known it?

Mr. Moore. I think if such an organization had existed before our


departure for Hilo I would have known something of it; but not necessarily so.

The Chairman. No; but you had good opportunities?

Mr. Moore. I was quite intimate with several of the gentlemen who were afterward engaged in this movement, and I never heard such a thing intimated.

The Chairman. How did matters progress in Hawaii after the establishment of the Provisional Government, with regard to the preservation of law and order?

Mr. Moore. Exceedingly well, so far as I knew. For a little while at first there was considerable excitement, much anxiety. The fears that I heard expressed were of incendiarism by the natives; but I only heard a few cases where incendiarism was suspected. But I do not know whether the fire was caused by incendiarism or in the ordinary way—through carelessness.

The Chairman. After the Provisional Government had been inaugurated, taken possession of the barracks, etc., did you hear of any attempted organization on the part of the Queen's friends to have a conflict with the Provisional Government and overturn it?

Mr. Moore. I heard frequent rumors of organizations.

The Chairman. Did you see any evidence of their being real?

Mr. Moore. I did not.

The Chairman. How would you describe the situation there?

Mr. Moore. Almost doubted their existence.

The Chairman. I suppose that was because you found that everything was conducted peacefully and quietly?

Mr. Moore. Yes; I did not think that an organization of that kind could be successful.

The Chairman. Why not?

Mr. Moore. Because the Provisional Government, after it was once established, had the arms and munitions of war. They had control of the custom-house and of the other offices, not only over these islands but the other islands; and I saw no way in which arms could be gotten into the islands without the knowledge of the officers of the Provisional Government, and I did not think that Government was foolish enough to let arms go into the hands of the other people. What I did think of was incendiarism.

The Chairman. Now, take the condition that the Hawaiian Islands was in, and Honolulu particularly, after the establishment of this Provisional Government, and up to the time you left the island, do you think the Queen could have overcome that Provisional Government without the assistance of some foreign power?

Mr. Moore. I do not think so.

The Chairman. It would have been a rash endeavor on her part to have attempted it?

Mr. Moore. A very rash endeavor.

The Chairman. So that you regard the Provisional Government, with the resources that it had—men, arms, and money—as being able to sustain itself against any forces the Queen could have organized upon her own resources and without assistance from abroad?

Mr. Moore. I did—undoubtedly so.

The Chairman. I suppose the ladies of Honolulu have their social meetings and entertainments as they do in other parts of the world?

Mr. Moore. Yes; they are very sociable and agreeable. A charming society exists there; an educated and elegant society, as much so as you can find in any small community.


The Chairman. Does that include persons having Kanaka blood?

Mr. Moore. A great many of them.

The Chairman. Are they good people?

Mr. Moore. Charming people. Some of my friends there were amongst the natives and half whites. My immediate associates were mostly among the whites; but I was entertained by both natives and whites.

The Chairman. Was there any obvious damper thrown upon the society of Honolulu by the accession of this Provisional Government or authority? Did people seem to hold it in dread, or did the social amenities among the families of Honolulu proceed as they had done before?

Mr. Moore. Sociability ceased for a little while after the outbreak, but soon continued much as before. At general grtherings you would see the families of those interested in the Provisional Government associating freely with those who were known to be Royalists and the Queen's adherents. So far as the social relations were concerned the change of government did not seem to have much effect; that is, from the outward appearance of social relations, the change of government seemed to have little effect.

The Chairman. There was no line of demarcation drawn in society upon the question of loyalty or disloyalty to the Queen?

Mr. Moore. I think not.

The Chairman. How is commerce affected by this change?

Mr. Moore. I know of that by hearing people talk. At first the business seemed to be checked, but after a few days it seemed to revive and there seemed to be more confidence. There seemed to be confidence in their business relations after a few days. As to that, not being engaged in any commercial pursuits myself, I only state that from hearsay— as to the checking of business and its increase thereafter— although I remember gentlemen stating that stocks increased in value within a few days and stocks were going up.

The Chairman. As to the commerce with the outside world. Was there any restraint imposed upon it by the Provisional Government?

Mr. Moore. I think not.

The Chairman. Things seem to be going on as before?

Mr. Moore. Things were going on as before.

The Chairman. In charge of the same officers?

Mr. Moore. In charge of the same officers.

The Chairman. It was an exchange of the Queen's Government into the hands of the Provisional Government, with the same offices.

Mr. Moore. It was.

The Chairman. From your observation of the effect upon this Government called the Provisional Government during the time that you remained in Honolulu, could you say that it was a good or bad Government.

Mr. Moore. It is my opinion that it was a good Government.

The Chairman. One that the people had confidence in?

Mr. Moore. Yes; that is my reason for thinking it was a good Government— because the people had confidence in it.

The Chairman. You have an acquaintance more or less special with a number of the leading men in Honolulu?

Mr. Moore. Yes.

The Chairman. The thinking men, the business men, and the men who controlled in political affairs?

Mr. Moore. Yes.


The Chairman. Taking the personnel of this new Government, the committee of safety, and the councillors who have been appointed, and the president and the cabinet, and generally the officers and attaches and employes of this new Government, what would you say of them as a class?

Mr. Moore. As a class I think they are an excellent set of men. That is, those in the higher positions. Most of them, many of them, would ornament any society.

The Chairman. They are men of real ability and character?

Mr. Moore. Men of ability and character. Of those who occupy the lower positions I know very little.

The Chairman. Will you say that the disposition of these people of whom you have spoken as being the controlling men in the islands there tended to deprave and degenerate the people, or that the tendency was in the opposite direction?

Mr. Moore. Of the Provisional Government?

The Chairman. Yes.

Mr. Moore. On the contrary, I think the tendency is to improve the social relations. Many of them are men against whom I never have heard a word said—men recognized there as men of means and ability, and most of them are temperate men. I will change that. They are temperate men, perhaps a quarter to a third of them total abstainers, and as a rule Christians.

The Chairman. Then you would say that society of Honolula which has the controlling influence in Hawaii is composed of men of the Anglo Saxon extraction, with their families, and that they are men of high grade of character?

Mr. Moore. Decidedly so. Many of these men have been educated in our American colleges, and are well educated, well read men.

The Chairman. Have you had occasion to examine a harbor there called Pearl River harbor?

Mr. Moore. I have been in Pearl Harbor.

The Chairman. Is there any river emptying into it?

Mr. Moore. Small streams, I think; perhaps two or three small streams.

The Chairman. Have you any knowledge of the depth of the water inside the bar there?

Mr. Moore. The water inside the bar is very deep for inside water, being in some places 20 fathoms, but mostly from 5 to 7 fathoms.

The Chairman. Does that deep water extend back any distance from the bar?

Mr. Moore. It extends about 5 miles.

Senator Butler. What is the extent of that harbor, approximately?

Mr. Moore. It is about 4 miles long by 3 miles deep in the extreme. But it is cut up by islands and small peninsulas running out into it, so that it has three or more arms to it.

The Chairman. Is the shore around it and the peninsulas of which you speak of such an elevation as to justify the opinion that it could be easily fortified?

Mr. Moore. I do think it could be easily fortified; and strongly fortified.

The Chairman. The fortification next to the ocean?

Mr. Moore. Next to the ocean, and torpedoes in the channel. With long-range guns of the present day, it might be reached at the distance a vessel would have to remain at sea; but the shots would be uncertain.


The Chairman. But with that channel the fortifications there would be very powerful, and it would be very difficult for a ship to pass in?

Mr. Moore. A ship could not pass in.

The Chairman. Do you know any other position in the Sandwich Islands where there is such an opportunity for protecting a fleet or for a naval station as would be found in Pearl Harbor, of course, with that channel dredged deep enough for ships to go in?

Mr. Moore. I do not think there is any other to compare with it for a harbor.

Senator Butler. What is the distance of Pearl Harbor from Honolulu?

Mr. Moore. Ten miles by water; 5 miles from one bar to the other. Senator Butler. South?

Mr. Moore. Southwest.

The Chairman. So that the government that had Pearl Harbor, with a channel for ships to enter, and proper fortification for a naval establishment, ships undergoing repairs and otherwise, you would consider would have the naval control of the islands?

Mr. Moore. She would have naval control of the islands and could protect her vessels inside of that harbor.

The Chairman. And her depot of supplies?

Mr. Moore. And her depot of supplies. As I said before, with the long-range guns that we have to-day a vessel could lay outside and drop in shell; might reach the inside with shell, but not by direct firing.

The Chairman. What is the distance from Sidney to Honolulu, as navigators estimate it?

Mr. Moore. About 4,400 miles, and Auckland, a coal station, about 3,700 miles.

The Chairman. I will ask you this way: Is it twice as far from Sidney to Honolulu as it is from San Francisco to Honolulu?

Mr. Moore. Yes. It is 2,100 miles to San Francisco from Honolulu, 2,200 miles to San Diego, and 2,300 miles to the Straits of Fuca.

The Chairman. The distance from Hongkong would be the distance from Sidney to Honolulu?

Mr. Moore. Hongkong, Manila, and Shanghai are more—5,000 miles; Nagasaki, 4,000, and Yokohama, 3,400 miles.

The Chairman. Where in all these countries would a ship navigating the Pacific Ocean get a supply of coal while crossing that great body of water? Suppose the ship is at Honolulu, where there is no coal, what would be the nearest point at which she would derive her supply of coal?

Mr. Moore. San Francisco.

The Chairman. Which is 2,100 miles away. The next nearest point would be at the Straits of Fuca?

Mr. Moore. Yes; 2,300 miles away.

The Chairman. The next nearest coal mines would be Sidney?

Mr. Moore. New Zealand—Auckland.

Senator Frye. The Straits of Fuca would be about 500 miles farther than San Francisco?

Mr. Moore. Two hundred miles farther than San Francisco.

The Chairman. Would a power having a proper supply of coal in Pearl Harbor have a great advantage over any other power in the world for the protection of the Pacific Ocean, or carrying on naval operations with their ships and fleets in the Pacific Ocean?

Mr. Moore. Yes; decidedly so.

The Chairman. That would be the central place for a coal depot;


that, you would regard, as being important for steam navigation by war ships?

Mr. Moore. Very important, especially for offensive demonstrations toward any other country attacking the west coast of the United States.

The Chairman. If a ship were coming through the Mediterranean and through the Suez Canal and approaching the United State here [indicating on a mapj and should meet with a force that was well supplied with coal and well protected and well provisioned—a naval force of the United States at Honolulu—do you think the advantages would be very great in favor of the American ships as against any ships that might make an attack from the Mediterranean and Red seas?

Mr. Moore. I do not exactly understand.

The Chairman. I say, suppose a fleet were sailing through the Mediterranean and Red seas, Indian Ocean, to attack us here on this coast, and we had a proper supply of naval force and naval stores of every description at Pearl Harbor, do you think the advantages would be in favor of the United States for protecting herself against such an attack as I have mentioned?

Senator Butler. On the main land?

The Chairman. Yes; protecting our coasts.

Mr. Moore. Yes, I think the United States would have very great advantage in having possession of the supplies at that place. Even if the United States were in such a position that she was not able to defend her position there she could destroy all the coal and supplies, thus keeping them from the enemy.

The Chairman. I am not talking of defending. Suppose that the United States fleet were located at Pearl Harbor, with a proper inlet through the bar, fortifications, and proper supplies of coal and other naval stores, would her position in defense of the west coast be greatly strengthened, by such a fact as that?

Mr. Moore. It would.

Senator Butler. I understand you to say that as a strategic point, if the United States had possession of the Sandwich Islands, her position would not be weakened if she had to abandon them?

Mr. Moore. Her position would not be weakened, and she would weaken her enemy in case he had the advantage. I will put it another way—she would not strengthen her enemy by allowing him to get her coal. Before abandoning her position, she could destroy all the coal, so that the enemy would have nothing but the station.

Senator Butler. So that you would regard it either for offensive or defensive operations as a very strategic point?

Mr. Moore. I should.

The Chairman. That applies to ships coming around the Horn as well as to ships coming through the Mediterranean. There is no coal in Patagonia?

Mr. Moore. Yes, in Chili.

The Chairman. Plenty of it?

Mr. Moore. Plenty, but not of a good quality. That applies to vessels approaching the United States from any direction, but more particularly to those approaching from the Asiatic or Australian coasts.

The Chairman. Suppose the United States were to be successful in cutting a canal through Nicaragua, what position in a military or naval sense would these islands have in protecting that enterprise, that channel of communication; important or otherwise?

Mr. Moore. It would be important; in my opinion more important

S. Doc. 231, pt 6----46


in keeping any other country from having a base of supplies at that point, or any other way.

The Chairman. The necessity for a base of supplies at Honolulu seems to depend upon the fact that it is a long distance to coal on the Asiatic coast or coast of New Zealand. Suppose that a fleet coaling at Sidney, Australia, or anywhere upon these British islands, and sailing such a distance as they would have to go to get to Honolulu; it would necessarily be slow in its movements, because it would consume a great deal of coal?

Mr. Moore. They would have to be economical in the use of coal; but as many of the vessels are built to-day they could carry coal enough to make this trip between these two points without stopping at any place—any midway place—to coal. But they would reach the coast of the United States with bunkers comparatively empty, which would take from their efficiency.

Senator Butler. I would like to ask you a question in regard to Pearl Harbor. Is it a large rendezvous? Taking the description you have given of its extent, how many ships would it hold?

Mr. Moore. It is large enough to take all the war vessels Great Britain has today, which runs into the hundreds.

Senator Butler. And give them protection within the harbor?

Mr. Moore. Yes.

Senator Butler. They could rendezvous there in still water?

Mr. Moore. Yes.

The Chairman. You mean whatever degree of security a fortification would be provided by the ships for their own safety?

Mr. Moore. Yes. I do not mean that if Pearl Harbor were filled with vessels they would be beyond the reach of the guns of to-day.

Senator Butler. That is not what I meant to say. Would they have what you officers call sea room?

Mr. Moore. Sea room; yes, plenty of it.

Senator Butler. Enough for more than a hundred vessels inside the bar?

Mr. Moore. Yes.

Senator Butler. Do you remember what water is on the bar crossing the harbor?

The Chairman. Only a few feet, 7 or 8.

Mr. Moore. I think more than that; about 12 feet. I am under the impression that that bar can be dredged with a hydraulic dredge, the same as Honolulu. We have a depth of 30 feet at Honolulu, and I have no reason to believe but that the bar at Pearl Harbor is of the same coral sand.

The Chairman. I have been trying to lead you up to this proposition, that Pearl Harbor, with the advantages that you have described and its location, nearly in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, is a strategic point for our country.

Mr. Moore. I regard it as a strategic point in defense of our west coast.

The Chairman. That if it were in the possession of any naval power it would cripple us?

Mr. Moore. It would enable them to throw a fleet on our coast of whatever number of vessels they might have, fully equipped with provisions and coal.

The Chairman. And we could have no point to anticipate them except the open sea and on the coast?

Mr. Moore. None. There is one question that the Senator asked


me a while ago. I would like to add that the harbor of Honolulu is one that could be very fairly defended.

The Chairman. From the hill back of it?

Mr. Moore. From the hills back of it, and the reef in front as well. I have just received a chart of Honolulu.

The Chairman. Does the water break deep over that reef?

Mr. Moore. No; very shallow.

The Chairman. You can build forts on the reef?

Mr. Moore. Yes; breakwater fortifications on that reef, and be about a mile in front of the moorings of the vessels.

Senator Butler. That would be to protect the harbor?

Mr. Moore. Yes; against any vessels from the outside.

The Chairman. What you speak of there is the Punchbowl?

Mr. Moore. Punchbowl and Diamond Head are both commanding points. Punchbowl back of the town.

The Chairman. That is the one with the crater?

Mr. Moore. Yes; both are extinct craters.

Senator Butler. You mean to have heavy guns on those hills?

Mr. Moore. Yes. They would be able to fire a long distance, and you could command a view within the range of the guns.

The Chairman. And you could establish heavy batteries looking out to sea?

Mr. Moore. Yes; on the reef.

Senator Butler. But you could command a sweep of the sea?

Mr. Moore. From both you could command a sweep of the sea of at least 90 degrees, and that commands completely the only approach from seaward to the harbor of Honolulu. Diamond Head commands 190 degrees.

Senator Butler. I would like to have down your statement in regard to the question I asked you a while ago. As to the expenditure of $100,000,000 to fortify and make a station of Pearl Harbor. Do you think that would be an extravagant estimate?

Mr. Moore. I think $100,000,000 would be very extravagant. I can not see where anything like that could be expended. In fact I think one-tenth that amount would be extravagant.


Lieutenant, U. S. Navy.


The Chairman. Were you connected with the U. S. S. Boston in January, 1893?

Mr. Hobbs. I was.

The Chairman. What was your office on that ship.

Mr. Hobbs. Paymaster.

The Chairman. You went with the ship on the little cruise down to Hilo and Lahaina?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. Were you acquainted with the islands before the ship left?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes; I was on the islands in 1874, when Kalakaua was first made King. I was on the Tuscarora, under command of Admiral Belknap; that is, he is now.

The Chairman. What stay did you make there in 1874?

Mr. Hobbs. I was there on that cruise on three different occasions.

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