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in keeping any other country from having a base of supplies at that point, or any other way.

The Chairman. The necessity for a base of supplies at Honolulu seems to depend upon the fact that it is a long distance to coal on the Asiatic coast or coast of New Zealand. Suppose that a fleet coaling at Sidney, Australia, or anywhere upon these British islands, and sailing such a distance as they would have to go to get to Honolulu; it would necessarily be slow in its movements, because it would consume a great deal of coal?

Mr. Moore. They would have to be economical in the use of coal; but as many of the vessels are built to-day they could carry coal enough to make this trip between these two points without stopping at any place—any midway place—to coal. But they would reach the coast of the United States with bunkers comparatively empty, which would take from their efficiency.

Senator Butler. I would like to ask you a question in regard to Pearl Harbor. Is it a large rendezvous? Taking the description you have given of its extent, how many ships would it hold?

Mr. Moore. It is large enough to take all the war vessels Great Britain has today, which runs into the hundreds.

Senator Butler. And give them protection within the harbor?

Mr. Moore. Yes.

Senator Butler. They could rendezvous there in still water?

Mr. Moore. Yes.

The Chairman. You mean whatever degree of security a fortification would be provided by the ships for their own safety?

Mr. Moore. Yes. I do not mean that if Pearl Harbor were filled with vessels they would be beyond the reach of the guns of to-day.

Senator Butler. That is not what I meant to say. Would they have what you officers call sea room?

Mr. Moore. Sea room; yes, plenty of it.

Senator Butler. Enough for more than a hundred vessels inside the bar?

Mr. Moore. Yes.

Senator Butler. Do you remember what water is on the bar crossing the harbor?

The Chairman. Only a few feet, 7 or 8.

Mr. Moore. I think more than that; about 12 feet. I am under the impression that that bar can be dredged with a hydraulic dredge, the same as Honolulu. We have a depth of 30 feet at Honolulu, and I have no reason to believe but that the bar at Pearl Harbor is of the same coral sand.

The Chairman. I have been trying to lead you up to this proposition, that Pearl Harbor, with the advantages that you have described and its location, nearly in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, is a strategic point for our country.

Mr. Moore. I regard it as a strategic point in defense of our west coast.

The Chairman. That if it were in the possession of any naval power it would cripple us?

Mr. Moore. It would enable them to throw a fleet on our coast of whatever number of vessels they might have, fully equipped with provisions and coal.

The Chairman. And we could have no point to anticipate them except the open sea and on the coast?

Mr. Moore. None. There is one question that the Senator asked


me a while ago. I would like to add that the harbor of Honolulu is one that could be very fairly defended.

The Chairman. From the hill back of it?

Mr. Moore. From the hills back of it, and the reef in front as well. I have just received a chart of Honolulu.

The Chairman. Does the water break deep over that reef?

Mr. Moore. No; very shallow.

The Chairman. You can build forts on the reef?

Mr. Moore. Yes; breakwater fortifications on that reef, and be about a mile in front of the moorings of the vessels.

Senator Butler. That would be to protect the harbor?

Mr. Moore. Yes; against any vessels from the outside.

The Chairman. What you speak of there is the Punchbowl?

Mr. Moore. Punchbowl and Diamond Head are both commanding points. Punchbowl back of the town.

The Chairman. That is the one with the crater?

Mr. Moore. Yes; both are extinct craters.

Senator Butler. You mean to have heavy guns on those hills?

Mr. Moore. Yes. They would be able to fire a long distance, and you could command a view within the range of the guns.

The Chairman. And you could establish heavy batteries looking out to sea?

Mr. Moore. Yes; on the reef.

Senator Butler. But you could command a sweep of the sea?

Mr. Moore. From both you could command a sweep of the sea of at least 90 degrees, and that commands completely the only approach from seaward to the harbor of Honolulu. Diamond Head commands 190 degrees.

Senator Butler. I would like to have down your statement in regard to the question I asked you a while ago. As to the expenditure of $100,000,000 to fortify and make a station of Pearl Harbor. Do you think that would be an extravagant estimate?

Mr. Moore. I think $100,000,000 would be very extravagant. I can not see where anything like that could be expended. In fact I think one-tenth that amount would be extravagant.


Lieutenant, U. S. Navy.


The Chairman. Were you connected with the U. S. S. Boston in January, 1893?

Mr. Hobbs. I was.

The Chairman. What was your office on that ship.

Mr. Hobbs. Paymaster.

The Chairman. You went with the ship on the little cruise down to Hilo and Lahaina?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. Were you acquainted with the islands before the ship left?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes; I was on the islands in 1874, when Kalakaua was first made King. I was on the Tuscarora, under command of Admiral Belknap; that is, he is now.

The Chairman. What stay did you make there in 1874?

Mr. Hobbs. I was there on that cruise on three different occasions.


The longest stay was about six months. In fact, we were there all the time during the first visit of the King to the United States after he became King. I think he came to the United States shortly after he was elected.

The Chairman. That is, Kalakaua?

Mr. Hobbs. Kalakaua, yes. You might say that we arrived there in the first instance in the Tuscarora in 1874. I think it was just a day after Lunalilo died. We were there when the trouble came up, after Kalakaua was elected King, and had to land our forces at that time to keep the peace. They were on shore, I think, some two weeks, something like that, and then continued our voyage to China on deep sea soundings, in which the ship was engaged at that time.

The Chairman. Who was the American minister at Honolulu at that time?

Mr. Hobbs. Mr. Pierce.

The Chairman. Was it at his request that the troops were sent to Honolulu?

Mr. Hobbs. I so understood it. But on that point I am not certain. That is my recollection.

The Chairman. Was there much commotion amongst the people at that time?

Mr. Hobbs. No; as I remember it it appeared to be a very peaceable kind of riot; it was all quelled within a few minutes after the force landed.

The Chairman. The Hawaiians, as a rule, are not a very riotous people?

Mr. Hobbs. No; they are very docile.

The Chairman. Have you been amongst them enough to form an estimate of their general characteristics?

Mr. Hobbs. So far as I know, they do not care very much for work, so long as they have plenty of poi and fish. They let matters go on so long as the have their poi and fish.

The Chairman. They are not an industrious, enterprising people?

Mr. Hobbs. No; not so in my opinion.

Senator Frye. You are speaking now of the Kanakas?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. Would you say that they are a people given to intrigue and conspiracy?

Mr. Hobbs. I should say not.

The Chairman. They are disposed to put up with what is given to them?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. During your visit to Hawaii did your hear the subject of annexation to the United States discussed amongst the people there?

Mr. Hobbs. No; I do not think I did.

The Chairman. And more recently, when you were there on the Boston, and before the time you went out to Hilo, what was the condition of the popular mind as to peacefulness and quietude?

Mr. Hobbs. All through that time there appeared to be a good deal of uneasiness among the people, due to the change in the ministry— rather unsettled; did not know what to do. They could not make any engagements ahead. They did not know what was going to happen until what was known as the Wilcox ministry came into power. After that ministry was installed the people had great faith and reliance that their troubles were over, and that that ministry would probably hold


over for two years following the adjournment of the Legislature, which was expected soon; and on the way to Hilo I got that impression from Mr. Stevens, in the conversations which I had with him from time to time, that the present ministry would not be voted ont.

The Chairman. Mr. Stevens was of that opinion, was he?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes; he seemed to be. And after the ministry was thrown out, Capt. Wiltse said to me that he was afraid that would be the result—that they would not stay in.

The Chairman. Did Mr. Stevens go with the Boston on any official business, or was it a pleasure excursion?

Mr. Hobbs. He had never visited the island of Hilo since he had been there, and he went principally to visit that island.

The Chairman. The Boston went out for target practice?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. And Mr. Stevens went along as a guest of the officers of the ship?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

Senator Frye. Did Mr. Stevens in these conversations with you express himself as pleased with the contentment and prospect of peace, and that it would last until his return home?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes; that was the idea I got from him—that if this ministry was not voted out they would have peace and quiet at least for two years, until this new Legislature came in, which would not be for two years.

The Chairman. Did you gather from Mr. Stevens that that was a satisfactory state of affairs?

Mr. Hobbs. I did, because all the men in that ministry were regarded as very reliable and very highly esteemed. Mr. Wilcox especially was a very wealthy man from Kauai. He was minister of the interior. Mr. Jones was the minister of finance; Cecil Brown was attorney-general, and a half white man; Mark Robinson was minister of foreign affairs.

The Chairman. Is Cecil Brown of American origin?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes, I think he came from Georgetown—I think he came from the District of Columbia. At all events he was at school over in Georgetown, I know, as a young man.

The Chairman. Georgetown College?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

Senator Frye. I would like to ask another question. You saw considerable of Mr. Stevens while you were there?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes, a good deal of him.

Senator Frye. What impression did you form of his character?

Mr. Hobbs. I regarded him as an able man in every way. I became very much attached to him, and was at his house frequently.

The Chairman. Your relations with Mr. Stevens were such as might be called confidential?

Mr. Hobbs. I should scarcely say that, although Mr. Stevens was from Maine and I was originally from Maine, and it was a little common amenity between us on that account, perhaps.

Senator Frye. Was Mr. Stevens a man whom you looked upon as inclined to be a filibusterer or inclined to disturb the condition of things at all?

Mr. Hobbs. No; I would not have thought that of him.

The Chairman. I was going to ask you whether you heard anything from Mr. Stevens in the discussion of Hawaiian affairs that led you to suppose he was trying to disrupt that Government, dethrone the


Queen, or accomplish the annexation of those islands to the United States?

Mr. Hobbs. No.

The Chairman. Nothing that he remarked led you to understand that he had any such purpose?

Mr. Hobbs. No.

The Chairman. Did he ever complain about the authorities there?

Mr. Hobbs. I never heard him make any complaint. We only talked in the usual way; but did not talk politics, only incidentally.

Mr. Chairman. Did you have a residence on the island while you were there, a cottage on the island?

Mr. Hobbs. From April to shortly before September my family were there, and I was on shore at night.

The Chairman. Keeping house.

Mr. Hobbs. No, at the hotel.

The Chairman. Mr. Moore's family was there?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. Were the families of other gentlemen?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes. On our ship? No. There was one other officer of the ship had his family there, but not at the hotel.

The Chairman. Your family went out to Honolulu to meet you?

Mr. Hobbs. In April last I got three weeks' leave from the admiral and came home and took my family back.

The Chairman. They could not go over on a man-of-war?

Mr. Hobbs. No; they went over on the Australia.

The Chairman. Had you any idea of keeping your wife there when you went on that trip to Honolulu?

Mr. Hobbs. She was not there; she came this last April.

The Chairman. Are there any other families of officers living there?

Mr. Hobbs. Mr. Moore's (he was on our ship) was the only family there.

The Chairman. Of course, in the case of an outbreak when your families were ashore you would feel a concern about them?

Mr. Hobbs. Oh, yes.

The Chairman. As I understand, you had no occasion to feel concerned about the situation at all, as to the public peace, when you went out to Hilo?

Mr. Hobbs. I did not feel concerned myself at all, but people about the town did feel concerned, people living there constantly. It did not occur to me that there was any danger to my belongings at all.

The Chairman. When you returned on Saturday morning, the 13th of January, did you go ashore?

Mr. Hobbs. I went ashore in the afternoon at 1 o'clock. We arrived in Honolulu, I think, about 11 o'clock, probably.

The Chairman. How long did you stay ashore?

Mr. Hobbs. I went ashore at 1 o'clock and went up to the English Club, where we used to go. It was there that I heard that the Queen was about to proclaim the new constitution. I then went down town to see what was going on. It was a business part of the town; it was Saturday afternoon; the people were scurrying around there; did not know what was going to happen—feared that there would be some sort of trouble and could not place exactly where it was coming from. On my way down I think I met Mr. Moore, and we had some conversation on the corner there with one of the residents, Mr. McInerny. Then I went on board ship. It was about 5 o'clock that afternoon. I went ashore again Sunday. Sunday is a remarkably quiet day in


Honolulu, and it was quiet on this Sunday—I did not see anybody about. I took a long walk and returned to the ship about 4 or 5 o'clock that afternoon. On Monday we were not allowed to leave the ship and I did not go on shore again until the next afternoon, when I had to go on duty at the place where our men had been spending the night. They were landed Monday afternoon. We had to make some arrangements about getting food for them, and something of that sort.

The Chairman. On that Saturday afternoon which you spent on shore what was the condition of the people? State whether they were agitated and excited, or quiet and cool.

Mr. Hobbs. There was rather more excitement, I ascertained, than there was before.

The Chairman. Did you attend any mass meeting that evening?

Mr. Hobbs. No.

The Chairman. Or any other evening that you were there?

Mr. Hobbs. No.

Senator Frye. Were those mass meetings on Saturday?

The Chairman. Saturday.

Senator Frye. Sunday, was it not?

Mr. Hobbs. I think it was Monday afternoon.

The Chairman. Yes. Before you left to go back on the ship, which I think you said was about 5 o'clock, did you hear of the establishment of a committee of safety, or anything of that kind?

Mr. Hobbs. I heard that a committee of safety had been appointed.

The Chairman. You heard that on shore?

Mr. Hobbs. I think so. I would not be absolutely sure about that.

The Chairman. Do you recollect the names of any of the persons with whom you and Mr. Moore conversed on these topics?

Mr. Hobbs. No; I do not remember. Shortly after Mr. Moore left, he went up town where his wife was living, and I do not remember that we did have any more conversation with any of the citizens.

The Chairman. Did you have any apprehension of an outbreak there that Saturday evening?

Mr. Hobbs. At the time I went on aboard the ship, no.

The Chairman. Later during that evening, did you have any?

Mr. Hobbs. No. I did not hear anything of any trouble except the rumors that a committee of safety had been appointed and was at work.

The Chairman. When you went on shore again on Sunday did you find any considerable bodies of men collected together?

Mr. Hobbs. No; I do not remember to have seen half a dozen people on the street.

The Chairman. You would not have supposed that the country was in a revolutionary state from the appearance of the people?

Mr. Hobbs. Not from what I saw on Sunday. But Sunday, as a rule, is a particularly quiet day, in the middle of the day.

The Chairman. You did not witness any public agitation or excitement?

Mr. Hobbs. I did not on that Sunday.

The Chairman. And you went back Sunday night to your vessel?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. And Monday you were detained on board?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes; not allowed to leave the ship.

The Chairman. What time did you get orders to remain aboard ship?

Mr. Hobbs. I think Monday morning.


The Chairman. At guard mounting?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes. At half-past 9, I think, word was passed that we would not be allowed to visit the shore.

The Chairman. Were any preparations made during Sunday for sending troops ashoret

Mr. Hobbs. I think not on Sunday.

The Chairman. Were any made on Monday after these orders were given for the officers to remain on board?

Mr. Hobbs. If my recollection serves me correctly it was not until Monday afternoon, until 1 o'clock, after the men had their dinners, that arrangements were made in case they were to land to get their belongings together, their equipments.

The Chairman. The equipments of such parties as went out from that ship consisted first of arms and ammunition, and then provisions?

Mr. Hobbs. They did not go on shore until after they had their supper that night, and they did not carry any provisions except some hardtack, which was taken, and then Mr. Moore and I were left on board ship to send provisions to them the next morning.

The Chairman. Do you recollect Mr. Stevens coming aboard ship on Monday?

Mr. Hobbs. I do. I remember that he came on board ship about 3 o'clock Monday afternoon. I saw him aboard ship. I did not have any conversation with him.

The Chairman. Had these orders and preparations for sending ships ashore been on foot before Mr. Stevens came on the ship?

Mr. Hobbs. I am unable to state accurately in regard to that, because it would not come within my supervision in any event.

The Chairman. But the order for the officers to remain on board ship was earlier?

Mr. Hobbs Yes, in the morning.

The Chairman. Before Mr. Stevens came?

Mr. Hobbs. Oh, yes.

The Chairman. Are those unusual orders when a vessel is in port?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes, I should say so. But it happened on one or two occasions after the revolution, while Admiral Skerrett was there. I think there were one or two days when we were not allowed to visit the shore.

The Chairman. It created the expectation that there was to be some need for the troops?

Mr. Hobbs. It did.

The Chairman. Then you went in on Tuesday morning?

Mr. Hobbs. At l o'clock Tuesday morning I went ashore on duty.

The Chairman. Where were the United States troops then?

Mr. Hobbs. They were in a hall called Arion hall, in the rear of the opera house.

The Chairman. Quartered there?

Mr. Hobbs. Took up their quarters there at 8 o'clock the evening before.

The Chairman. How long did they remain there before going to Camp Boston?

Mr. Hobbs. About a week; Capt. Wiltse directed me to find the agent of the building and pay for its occupancy while our people were quartered there, which I did.

The Chairman. You had nothing to do with quartering the troops there, though?

Mr. Hobbs. No.


The Chairman. When the troops were at Camp Boston, did they put up tents?

Mr. Hobbs. No; they occupied a large house which belonged to Mr. Bishop, with large, extensive grounds. For that establishment I paid at the rate $75 per month. Mr. Damon, the agent, stated he had rented it for that purpose. That was since we were there. They rented at that rate, and we paid the same rate.

The Chairman. When you got off on Monday were all the troops at Arion Hall, or at different places?

Mr. Hobbs. A large portion of the marines were at the consul-general's office and about 12 at Mr. Stevens's house.

The Chairman. Were you present at any interviews between the Queen's ministers and the persons who were then conducting the Provisional Government.

Mr. Hobbs. No.

The Chairman. You know nothing of that?

Mr. Hobbs. No.

The Chairman. After the establishment of the Provisional Government, how long did you remain in Honolulu or Hawaii?

Mr. Hobbs. The ship Boston?

The Chairman. Yes?

Mr. Hobbs. Until—I think we left there on the 26th of September last.

The Chairman. You were not attached to any other ship?

Mr. Hobbs. No.

The Chairman. You came away with the Boston?

Mr. Hobbs. Came away with the Boston.

The Chairman. During that period of time, from the establishment of this Provisional Government until the time you left there, state whether peace and quietude and order prevailed in Honolulu, or were there outbreaks, public agitations?

Mr. Hobbs. Peace and quiet obtained all the time.

The Chairman. Testing the government in control of public affairs there with what you saw of the condition of the community, commerce, trade, and all that, would you say that is a good government or bad government?

Mr. Hobbs. I should say it was a good government.

The Chairman. At any time that you have been in Hawaii, have you seen any government that you thought was better than that?

Mr. Hobbs. No.

The Chairman. State whether you believe that the resources in command of that Provisional Government, after it had been established by men and money and arms and the support of the people, were such that the Queen, with what she had at her command and without assistance from foreign powers, could have overcome that government.

Mr. Hobbs. In my opinion she never could, never.

The Chairman. You think it would have been a rash and dangerous venture to undertake it?

Mr. Hobbs. I do.

The Chairman. Do you think now, without the assistance of foreign governments, the Queen could break down the Provisional Goveminent?

Mr. Hobbs. I do not.

The Chairman. So that, as to these limits on power and authority, would you consider that the Provisional Government is a more permanent government than a royal government could be at this time?


Mr. Hobbs. I should say so—was at the time I left Honolulu.

The Chairman. And even up to now?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes; my confidence is stronger now. They are better able to defend themselves than they were when I left.

The Chairman. Do you think any man or set of men would be able by combination and conspiracy to put those native people into a state of hostility and belligerency and war toward the Provisional Government?

Mr. Hobbs. The native people.

The Chairman. Yes.

Mr. Hobbs. In my opinion it would be a very difficult thing to do.

The Chairman. You think a good strong army in respect of numbers could not be organized there under existing conditions?

Mr. Hobbs. Not of natives. I think 50 white men could go all through the islands.

The Chairman. You predicate that belief of the characteristics of the people?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. As I understand they are people who have been during all their career given to obedience?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. And the power that is backed by sufficient authority and resources to maintain itself is apt to be sustained by them.

Mr. Hobbs. Yes; I should say that without any reservation.

The Chairman. What is the general character for intelligence and good conduct and good motives and good purposes of those persons who are now engaged in the effort to govern Hawaii under the present organization called the "Provisional Government"?

Mr. Hobbs. I think it is a desire to have a good strong government, which they have not had during this dynasty. They have been in an unsettled state during the whole time of this reign. They have had revolutions about every year or two, and they have never felt that they have had good, substantial government.

The Chairman. Are you speaking of the reign of Kalakaua and Liliuokalani?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. You are not speaking of the Kamehameha reigns?

Mr. Hobbs. No.

Senator Frye. Mr. Hobbs did not answer all of your former question.

The Chairman. Let the question be read.

The question was read as follows: "What is the general character for intelligence and good conduct and good motives and good purposes of those persons who are now engaged in the effort to govern Hawaii under the present organization called the Provisional Government?"

Mr. Hobbs. In my opinion they are the best men in the islands— men who are the most reliable and respectable in the islands that I know.

The Chairman. How would those men compare with the better class of people in the United States?

Mr. Hobbs. Compare most favorably.

Senator Frye. In education and everything?

Mr. Hobbs. Education; yes, refinement and culture.

The Chairman. Have you ever seen any disposition on the part of


the ruling authorities there—the white people—to wrong or bear down upon the native Kanaka population?

Mr. Hobbs. No.

The Chairman. Is the reverse of that proposition true?

Mr. Hobbs. I should say so.

The Chairman. What seems to be the state of feeling between the Kanaka population and the white people, taking them at large—taking the different classes—whether it is friendly, agreeable, or hostile?

Mr. Hobbs. So far as I was able to observe that point I should say that it is favorable.

The Chairman. I suppose necessarily there must be some race jealousies there?

Mr. Hobbs. I think that is so, more particularly among the half whites than among the pure natives.

The Chairman. Would you say that there was a stronger condition of race jealously existing in Hawaii between the whites and the native Kanakas than there is in these States, Southern States, Washington— I will say between the whites and negroes?

Mr. Hobbs. Not so much.

The Chairman. Is it considered disreputable for a white man to marry a Kanaka woman?

Mr. Hobbs. No; many have done so.

The Chairman. But it is quite disreputable for a white man to marry a negro woman here.

Mr. Hobbs. Oh, certainly.

The Chairman. Take them in their churches, schools, business erlations, agricultural occupations and associations—take the whole thing together, does there seem to be any real hostility between these different races?

Mr. Hobbs. I should say not.

The Chairman. Do they live on amicable terms?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. And have good will and encouragement for each other?

Mr. Hobbs. I should say so, as a rule; yes.

The Chairman. Of course, the ordinary distinctions which are created by education and different methods of reasoning must make their impressions there as they do everywhere else?

Mr. Hobbs. In the social gatherings there you will see half castes and pure natives in society all together.

The Chairman. Is Hawaii a pleasant place for residence?

Mr. Hobbs. I liked it very much myself.

The Chairman. I speak now more particularly of the society of Honolulu and larger towns—Hilo?

Mr. Hobbs. I only know about Honolulu, and the society there is a delightful one. It is quite as refined as you would find in any town in the United States, go where you will.

The Chairman. Would you call the people there refined and intelligent?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. People of good tastes and aspirations?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. And people of broad intelligence?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. Had you ever heard from Captain Wiltse any observations


at all that led you to think that he was disposed to participate in Hawaiian politics, Hawaiian affairs?

Mr. Hobbs. No.

The Chairman. Interfere in the slightest degree with the independence of that country?

Mr. Hobbs. No.

The Chairman. You know Captain Wiltse well?

Mr. Hobbs. Very well.

The Chairman. Have you had frequent conversations with him?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

Senator Frye. Ss far as you know Captain Wiltse's purpose in landing troops was to protect the lives and property of Americans?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. Was that the understanding when the troops left the ship?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. To protect life and property?

Mr. Hobbs. The troops were ordered to take no side, but to remain passive in the troubles that were occurring—political troubles.

The Chairman. Could you detect any difference between the movement of the troops ashore from the Boston and the movement that took place twenty years ago, in 1874, when you were there, as to its purposes, objects, and motives?

Mr. Hobbs. I should say it was for the same reason.

The Chairman. So far as you know it all appeared to be for the same purpose?

Mr. Hobbs. Yes.

The Chairman. The preservation of life and property?

Mr. Hobbs. Exactly.

The Chairman. Did you have any suspicion or conjecture that those troops were sent there for the purpose of breaking up one government and erecting another?

Mr. Hobbs. Not the slightest. I did not know what was the purpose I did not figure it at all.

The Chairman. You did not think there was any such purpose?

Mr. Hobbs. No.

Adjourned to meet to-morrow, the 10th instant, at 10 o'clock a. m.

Wednesday, January 10, 1894.

The committee met pursuant to adjournment.

Present: The chairman (Senator Morgan) and Senators Gray and Frye.

Absent: Senators Butler and Sherman.


The Chairman. What is your rank in the Navy?

Mr. Laird. Lieutenant, senior grade.

The Chairman. When did you first visit the Hawaiian Islands?

Mr. Laird. On the arrival of the Boston there, August 24, 1892.

The Chairman. Were you much ashore after your arrival there?

Mr. Laird. Yes; most of the time when I was off duty I was ashore and met the people.


The Chairman. Did you have a great many acquaintances among them?

Mr. Laird. A great many.

The Chairman. What was the general state or condition of the people as to peacefulness and quietness after January, 1893?

Mr. Laird. It was generally quiet; but there was a great deal of tension on account of the numerous changes in the cabinet and the difficulties in the Legislature. At times in and about the club I would hear people, members of the Legislature, speak of the tension, and when the lottery bill was brought up for passage there was a great deal of tension amongst the people.

The Chairman. Do you mean that that occurred after the last change in the cabinet?

Mr. Laird. No; this was progressing with each change in the cabinet. The business portion of the community was more and more dissatisfied.

The Chairman. What cabinet was in when you went there—the Wilcox cabinet?

Mr. Laird. I can not tell. I know some of the members of the last cabinet. Mr. Parker was a member of the last cabinet.

Senator Gray. Who was that?

Mr. Laird. Sam Parker.

The Chairman. I think he was a member of the last cabinet?

Senator Frye. He was a member of the cabinet that displaced the Wilcox cabinet.

Mr. Laird. He was a member of the one that displaced the Wilcox cabinet—minister of foreign relations.

The Chairman. Did you know Mr. Parker?

Mr. Laird. Yes; very well.

The Chairman. Did you hear him speak of Hawaii and the various changes of the cabinet and the passage of the lottery and the opium bills?

Mr. Laird. I went to his house at various times, visited his family, and it was very seldom that he discussed politics. If he did it was in a light, frivolous way. He was 6 feet in height, but he had more of the characteristics of a child than of a full-grown man.

The Chairman. These discussions that you heard in the club were from other persons?

Mr. Laird. Yes; from other persons, people who would come there to get their luncheon.

The Chairman. Did you go with the Boston down to Hilo on that practice cruise?

Mr. Laird. Yes, I did.

The Chairman. When did you leave Honolulu?

Mr. Laird. We left on January 4 and returned on January 14.

The Chairman. At the time you left there were you aware of the existence of any public commotion or any threat against the integrity of the government, or opposition to it at all?

Mr. Laird. No. On the contrary, I was at a dinner with Mr. Irwin, who was Claus Spreckles's partner, and he expressed himself as being well satisfied with this new cabinet.

Senator Frye. That was the Wilcox cabinet?

Mr. Laird. Yes; Mr. Wilcox, from Hawaii; P. C. Jones, Mark Robinson, and Cecil Brown, all men of very high standing in the community.

Senator Frye. Was Mr. Irwin a man of wealth?

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